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New Hampshire VA Hospital Removes Bible from POW/MIA Display After Complaints

Skwim

Veteran Member
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The Manchester VA Medical Center in New Hampshire recently put up a “Missing Man” table display in the front entrance. These displays are dedicated to prisoners of war or those missing in action, and they’re fairly commonplace at military bases. But this particular display had a Bible on the table, suggesting that POW/MIAs were only Christian, and that atheists and people of other faiths didn’t make the same sacrifices as other soldiers.

VAMC_NH_Bible_mia-pow_close_wide_via_MRFF.PNG

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first noted the problem in late January. Founder Mikey Weinstein said he called up Corey Beem, Acting Staff Assistant to the Director, and urged him to reconsider the display. Within hours, he heard back:

I want you to know that you can inform your clients that the Manchester VAMC has the utmost respect and admiration for all Veterans, regardless of their beliefs. As such we are going to be removing the Bible from the display to better serve all Veterans.

Great! Problem solved!… Except days later, the Bible had returned to the display.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote a letter to the hospital around the same time, noting the concerns:

“Including the Christian holy book on a table meant to represent all POW/MIA service members sends the unfortunate message that the Manchester VAMC values Christian service members above minority religious and nonreligious ones,” [FFRF Associate Counsel Sam] Grover wrote. “The table should be a secular reminder of the sacrifice of all military members, not just those in the Christian majority.”

Grover also pointed out that, after receiving criticism from clients about the presence of unnecessary and divisive religious iconography on displays, “numerous VA centers have removed bibles placed on ‘missing man’ tables in recognition that the bible creates division between Christian and non-Christian service members, where no rift need exist.”
He’s right about that last part. Whenever there’s a Bible on these tables, they’re often replaced by generic “faith” books or just removed entirely.

So how did it even get there in the first place? It’s because the guy who set up the table is a religious supremacist, who wrongly thinks we live in a Christian Nation.

Not so fast, says Bob Jones, a Vietnam Veteran active with Northeast POW/MIA Network, the group that set up the display with a Bible donated by a 95-year-old local former POW.

“I forget; when we took our oath to the military, did it say ‘God’ in it? How about when we get paid, on that money, it says ‘in God we trust.’ They don’t turn in their money, though, right? So now there’s a Bible on the table and they don’t like it. You know what? They are free to believe what they want to believe, and so am I. It’s called freedom,” Jones says. “The Bible stays.”
That’s… a weak argument. We forced religion in the government before, so we’ll do it again now! That’s not freedom. That’s the majority pushing its religious will on the minority.

The good news is that, as of this weekend, the Bible is gone. Perhaps the VA realized Jones’ bluster had no legal backing. The current display is secular — just as it should be.
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Earthling

David Henson
The good news is that, as of this weekend, the Bible is gone. Perhaps the VA realized Jones’ bluster had no legal backing. The current display is secular — just as it should be..

As usual I find your position not very well thought out at all. You can remove the Bible but what about all of those with faith? Or whatever? Why not leave the Bible and add the Qur'an, the Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching, The Analects, Pirqe Aboth, etc.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What a load of hooey! "Monument" my ###. That's the monumental equivalent of gibberish.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As usual I find your position not very well thought out at all. You can remove the Bible but what about all of those with faith? Or whatever? Why not leave the Bible and add the Qur'an, the Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching, The Analects, Pirqe Aboth, etc.

As usual it is simply an opportunity to attack anyone of faith.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yup! Attacking anyone not of the Christian faith: "We matter. You don't. So there. :p"

.

I challenge you to find anywhere that I posted anything even remotely insinuating that only Christian's matter. I never have and never will. I've no problem with those of different faith or no faith at all for that matter......so long as they are not rude.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
As usual I find your position not very well thought out at all. You can remove the Bible but what about all of those with faith? Or whatever? Why not leave the Bible and add the Qur'an, the Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching, The Analects, Pirqe Aboth, etc.
What would you leave for atheists?
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Someone made a post referring to people ‘of faith’.

I hear that term a lot from Christians, but have no idea what ‘of faith’ even is. I suspect it means their religious beliefs?

Maybe I should start a thread.
 

Earthling

David Henson
What would you leave for atheists?

That's a good question. Either nothing, which is their wont, or maybe a copy of Darwin or Dawkins or Doonsbury? I would say the best option, the one not being sarcastic or facetious in a mere response to some post on an Internet forum, would be . . . nothing.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
As usual I find your position not very well thought out at all. You can remove the Bible but what about all of those with faith? Or whatever? Why not leave the Bible and add the Qur'an, the Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching, The Analects, Pirqe Aboth, etc.

Having none is more practical than having a huge pile of religious texts. Do those with faith falter in it without the constant reassurance of imagery?
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Someone made a post referring to people ‘of faith’.

I hear that term a lot from Christians, but have no idea what ‘of faith’ even is. I suspect it means their religious beliefs?

Maybe I should start a thread.

I can't speak for others, but when I say "people of faith" I don't limit that to Christians. So when I use those words I am referring to religious people in general, whether they be Christian , Hindu , Muslim, Jew, etc and so on.
 

JChnsc19

Member
As usual it is simply an opportunity to attack anyone of faith.
It’s an opportunity to attack anyone of faith? Idk where you are but 85% of the US claim some sort of religion. Our money says in god we trust. Prayer has just recently been removed from schools. Idk if this is still a thing but nurses were legally allowed to switch assignments if a patient was having a procedure against their religious beliefs. Catholic hospitals wouldn’t tie Fallopian tubes. At one time certain religious organizations were allowed to deny women birth control. Amish are not required to go to war. Aren’t we sworn into court with a Bible? Go ahead & tell me about your “attacks”
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It’s an opportunity to attack anyone of faith? Idk where you are but 85% of the US claim some sort of religion. Our money says in god we trust. Prayer has just recently been removed from schools. Idk if this is still a thing but nurses were legally allowed to switch assignments if a patient was having a procedure against their religious beliefs. Catholic hospitals wouldn’t tie Fallopian tubes. At one time certain religious organizations were allowed to deny women birth control. Amish are not required to go to war. Aren’t we sworn into court with a Bible? Go ahead & tell me about your “attacks”

I think you are completely misunderstanding my post. You are interpreting it completely opposite of my intent.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
All of our references to God and government are the results of the cold war with Russia and other communist Nations.

I don't see why a person just couldn't have a nice arrangement of flowers and such with whatever words they want to say as a memorial . It would suffice nicely I think.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I challenge you to find anywhere that I posted anything even remotely insinuating that only Christian's matter. I never have and never will. I've no problem with those of different faith or no faith at all for that matter......so long as they are not rude.

So what did you mean when you said:

"As usual it is simply an opportunity to attack anyone of faith."
Do you not think that such a dedication should be religiously non-partisan, and be all inclusive?


.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
That's a good question. Either nothing, which is their wont, or maybe a copy of Darwin or Dawkins or Doonsbury? I would say the best option, the one not being sarcastic or facetious in a mere response to some post on an Internet forum, would be . . . nothing.
That sounds like you believe the lives of atheist soldiers are worth nothing. Maybe I misunderstood.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I can't speak for others, but when I say "people of faith" I don't limit that to Christians. So when I use those words I am referring to religious people in general, whether they be Christian , Hindu , Muslim, Jew, etc and so on.
Theists
 

ecco

Veteran Member
It’s an opportunity to attack anyone of faith? Idk where you are but 85% of the US claim some sort of religion. ... Prayer has just recently been removed from schools.

Trying to force school children to pray to a specific god in a specific way is an attack on all the rest of the children in that school. You seem to believe that all of the 85% you reference believe the same way.

Would you be OK with your 5th grader reciting:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Would you be OK with your 10th grader kneeling down toward Mecca five times a day and repeating "Allah Akbar"?



ETA: I too may have misunderstood your post.
 

JChnsc19

Member

Trying to force school children to pray to a specific god in a specific way is an attack on all the rest of the children in that school. You seem to believe that all of the 85% you reference believe the same way.

Would you be OK with your 5th grader reciting:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Would you be OK with your 10th grader kneeling down toward Mecca five times a day and repeating "Allah Akbar"?
Are you asking me or people on the thread?
 
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