1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured New discoveries and research in abiogenesis

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by shunyadragon, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Abiogenesis is definitely a young science and a work in progress with unknowns. but in recent history since the DNA/RNA was decoded the science of abiogenesis had goals to work for from pre-life chemistry to DNA/RNA

    https://phys.org/news/2020-06-ancient-asteroid-impacts-ingredients-life.html

    Ancient asteroid impacts created the ingredients of life on Earth and Mars

    by Tohoku University

    [​IMG]
    Single stage propellant gun used for the simulation of impact-induced reactions at NIMS. Credit: Yoshihiro Furukawa
    A new study published in Scientific Reports reveals that asteroid impact sites in the ocean may possess a crucial link in explaining the formation of the essential molecules for life. The researchers discovered the emergence of amino acids that serve as the building blocks for proteins—demonstrating the role of meteorites in bringing life's molecules to Earth, and potentially Mars.

    More information: Yuto Takeuchi et al. Impact-induced amino acid formation on Hadean Earth and Noachian Mars, Scientific Reports (2020). DOI: 10.1038/s41598-020-66112-8, www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-66112-8
    Journal information: Scientific Reports

    There are two explanations for the origins of life's building molecules: extraterrestrial delivery, such as via meteorites, and endogenous formation. The presence of amino acids and other biomolecules in meteorites points to the former.

    Researchers from Tohoku University, National Institute for Materials Science (NIMS), Center for High Pressure Science & Technology Advanced Research (HPSTAR), and Osaka University simulated the reactions involved when a meteorite crashes into the ocean. To do this, they investigated the reactions between carbon dioxide, nitrogen, water, and iron in a laboratory impact facility using a single stage propellant gun. Their simulation revealed the formation of amino acids such as glycine and alanine. These amino acids are direct constituents of proteins, which catalyze many biological reactions.

    The team used carbon dioxide and nitrogen as the carbon and nitrogen sources because these gasses are regarded as the two major components in the atmosphere on the Hadean Earth, which existed more than 4 billion years ago.

    Corresponding author from Tohoku University, Yoshihiro Furukawa, explains, "Making organic molecules form reduced compounds like methane and ammonia are not difficult, but they are regarded as minor components in the atmosphere at that time. The finding of amino acid formation from carbon dioxide and molecular nitrogen demonstrates the importance in making life's building blocks from these ubiquitous compounds."

    The hypothesis that an ocean once existed on Mars also raises interesting avenues for exploration. Carbon dioxide and nitrogen are likely to have been the major constituent gasses of the Martian atmosphere when the ocean existed. Therefore, impact-induced amino acid formation also provides a possible source of life's ingredients on ancient Mars.

    Furukawa says, "Further investigations will reveal more about the role meteorites played in bringing more complex biomolecules to Earth and Mars."
     
    • Informative Informative x 8
    • Like Like x 2
  2. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,091
    Ratings:
    +157
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Science owns and expresses human consciousness and self human in awareness like we all own....human belief, thinking and awareness about spatial advice.

    So when science as that human says about bringing more meteorite matter to Earth, they really mean it.

    When a human who places life into abstract reasoning...….apart from self, a human.

    Real human life/mind psyche do not placate that our life is just DNA/RNA or chemicals...we live first in whole self human presence.

    When you placate, as an aware human just DNA/RNA as applied and inferred to a compared body of stone mass.....then your owned mental intention is to give it back to that status as a claimed beginning, as if we do not yet personally exist.

    Which was a self teaching about science owning a self human Destroyer mentality, for there is no such status as new discoveries....it is the exact same thinking of comparing that science did before...…..stating what they want to invent us into by their so called creator mentality.

    The answer, is in science, but I am not. So is a human just DNA/RNA when you look at that information and then look at a human bio life in whole form?

    I would ask a chemistry scientist owning a whole living bio organic human life body, equated to chemistry, would we be a deceased bio organic life as a chemical equation...to say equals to the information you impose we just exist as?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,020
    Ratings:
    +4,119
    Religion:
    Christian
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,160
    Ratings:
    +3,539
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    25,615
    Ratings:
    +12,447
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    • Like Like x 2
  6. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,091
    Ratings:
    +157
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    What anyone of us should question, if science says I wanted to prove that God, as stone, and O other bodies of origin form came from the eternal, and were separated, hence burst and burnt.....then I believe you have been given the proof.

    For if a meteorite as its own properties has DNA/RNA material....then it is owned by the body meteorite...and no human is any meteorite.....why science told science as a scientist who had learnt, very much like Stephen Hawkings had....from his life sacrificed and given suffering that science is wrong.
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    First, James Tour is an Intelligent Design stooge, and not accepted by scientific community involved with the research into abiogenesis. His research is more in the synthetic organics, and not the natural environments associated with abiogenesis, which other scientist perform their research.

    The Baha'i Faith believes that Creation by God was a natural creation by the Laws of NAture God determined, Science simply determines the natural nature of our physical existence Through independent scientific methods, which would not be in conflict with God's Creation. God is consistent in Creation with the evidence that science uses.

    The Baha'i Faith believes in the harmony of science and religion. Science is independent of any religious or lack of belief.
     
    #7 shunyadragon, Jun 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,020
    Ratings:
    +4,119
    Religion:
    Christian
    Who said “every single thing”? Strawman. Unfortunately, if life is ever created by scientists, it’ll just prove that it took Intelligence to accomplish it.

    I’m talking about engineering and design....it’s called ID, not IM.
     
  9. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,020
    Ratings:
    +4,119
    Religion:
    Christian
    Where? Where does science accept such an understanding? Naturalism is the order of the day. I’ve never read otherwise, from the mainstream.
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Methodological Naturalism only applies to our physical existence that may falsify theories and hypothesis based on objective verifiable Methodological Naturalism is neutral to all theological and philosophical beliefs or propositions that are beyond objective verifiable evidence for the nature of our physical existence including the questions of whether God exists or not.

    Ontological Naturalism is philosophical proposition that nothing exists beyond our physical existence, and is not supported by Methodological Naturalism.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    No it would not. It simply falsify the hypothesis science can artificially synthesis develop life from none life chemistry. The science of abiogenesis would be based on natural non-artificial scientific processes that result from the evolution in the suitable environment of non-life chemistry to result in living organisms. Of course science does not prove anything.


    ID proposes that living organisms cannot come about through natural processes in nature and evolve naturally, and not whether human science can produce life from non-life chemistry.

    Fortunately God is a Creator not an engineer.
     
    #11 shunyadragon, Jun 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    As i said, 'science is neutral,' which is defined by Methodological Naturalism. This is my belief based on my belief in the Baha'i Faith and the harmony of science and religion.

    Please DO NOT misrepresent my posts.
     
  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    29,057
    Ratings:
    +23,554
    Religion:
    None
    Life has been created several times using different methods. What it shows is that give suitable conditions and materials it is actually so easy that it happens spontaneously.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,696
    Ratings:
    +1,108
    "...thy will be done in earth..." and yet, we are the children
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Did Life Emerge in the “Primordial Soup” via DNA or RNA? Surprising Answer From New Research

    Did Life Emerge in the “Primordial Soup” via DNA or RNA? Surprising Answer From New Research

    TOPICS:BiochemistryDNAEvolutionGenetics

    By UK RESEARCH AND INNOVATION JUNE 7, 2020

    [​IMG]

    Scientists have long debated which genetic information carrier — DNA or RNA — started life on Earth, but a new study suggests life could have begun with a bit of both. The research, led by scientists from the Medical Research Council (MRC) Laboratory of Molecular Biology (LMB), in Cambridge, shows for the first time how some of the building blocks of both DNA and RNA could have spontaneously formed and co-existed in the ‘primordial soup’ on Earth.

    The work challenges one of the leading hypotheses for the advent of life — the ‘RNA world’ theory, which arose in the 60s and has gained wide acceptance.

    Today, all known living organisms use the same genetic molecules — called nucleic acids — to store information. There are two sorts of nucleic acids: DNA and RNA. DNA encodes instructions in genes. Genes are turned into messages using RNA, which carries instructions to make proteins. Proteins can make structures and act as molecular machines.

    In the ‘RNA world’ theory, life started with RNA molecules, which can both store instructions and can act as a modest machine, potentially enabling them to self-replicate. It proposes that through evolution, life in the RNA world gave way to the era of DNA and proteins, because DNA is more stable and durable than RNA.

    In the current study, published in Nature, the researchers simulated the conditions on a primordial rocky Earth with shallow ponds in the lab. They dissolved chemicals that form RNA in water, then dried them out and heated them, then they simulated the early sun’s rays by exposing them to UV radiation.

    In this recreation of early Earth geochemistry, intermediates in the synthesis of two of the building blocks of RNA were simultaneously also converted into two of the building blocks of DNA.

    It is the first demonstration that reasonable amounts of a genetic alphabet made up of four building blocks, two for RNA and two for DNA — potentially sufficient to have encoded early life, which was far less complex than life today — may have been available on the primordial Earth.

    Professor John Sutherland from the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, who led the work, says: “The RNA world hypothesis suggests that life began with RNA, before a genetic takeover occurred involving primitive biosynthetic machinery and natural selection to result in DNA.”

    “Our work suggests that in conditions consistent with shallow primordial ponds and rivulets there was a mixed genetic system with RNA and DNA building blocks co-existing at the dawn of life. This fulfills what many people think is a key precondition for the spontaneous emergence of life on Earth.”

    The team’s experiments to simulate early Earth geochemistry showed that four of the building blocks for DNA and RNA can arise from the same reagents and conditions. They produced cytidine and uridine, two of the building blocks of RNA, and deoxyadenosine, which is one of those of DNA. Deoxyadenosine was partly converted to deoxyinosine, which can take the role of another DNA building block.

    They believe that these four building blocks may have coexisted before life evolved and were the beginnings of a primitive genetic alphabet.

    Professor Sutherland adds: “The nucleic acids, RNA and DNA, are clearly related and this work suggests that they both derive from a hybrid ancestor, rather than one preceding the other.”

    “Since genetic information always flows from nucleic acids to proteins, and never in reverse — a principle called the ‘central dogma’ of molecular biology by Francis Crick — we now need to uncover how the information which can be stored and purveyed by these nucleic acids could have been first used to make to proteins.”

    Understanding the chemical origins of life is a fundamental aspect of natural science, and can inform the design of future synthetic biology.

    Dr. Megan Dowie, head of molecular and cellular medicine at the MRC commented: “This study shows that blue skies research can reveal fascinating insights into how the very beginnings of life may have emerged, and demonstrates the importance of supporting fundamental research. These underpinning discoveries in the life sciences could enable exciting future strategies for artificial biology.”

    Reference: “Selective prebiotic formation of RNA pyrimidine and DNA purine nucleosides” by Jianfeng Xu, Václav Chmela, Nicholas J. Green, David A. Russell, Mikołaj J. Janicki, Robert W. Góra, Rafał Szabla, Andrew D. Bond & John D. Sutherland,3 June 2020, Nature.
    DOI: 10.1038/s41586-020-2330-9
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,020
    Ratings:
    +4,119
    Religion:
    Christian
    Sorry, but not really....it’s fascinating what Venter has done, but it was not a bottom up design. He just ‘scooped out’ the insides of a bacterium, and put already-existing genes inside the cell.

    (It’s like taking a Corvette chassis, emptying all components, and then installing a Jaguar infrastructure.)

    No new genes were created, and the cells can’t replicate.

    Plus, it took an Intelligent Designing group of scientists to do it.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,563
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    The Intelligent Designing Group have done nothing constructive in the advance of science except spend millions of dollars coned from gullible churches.producing bogus ENRON statistics (as documented) and phony science only to justify a religious agenda.not accepted by the world of science.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    11,966
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Christian (Methodist)
    Apparently, God decided to leave evidence of his existence, presence and action out of the natural world so that there is nothing of it for anyone to observe. Why do you try to blame that on honest people?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    11,966
    Ratings:
    +7,865
    Religion:
    Christian (Methodist)
    Intelligent humans creating life would not establish the intelligent design religion as a fact.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,020
    Ratings:
    +4,119
    Religion:
    Christian
    Your God isn’t “accepted by the world of science”, either. Do you recognize that?
     
Loading...