1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

New Australian Vaccination Policy

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Mycroft, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    No one can be vaccinated against aides either.... there are ways to protect yourself.

    If ever they come up with a vaccine for aids, you watch the scare campaign....there are ways to protect ourselves but they will have us believe vaccination is the only way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,364
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Sigh. You realise some people cannot have vaccines right? A vaccine in many cases is a small dose of the drug. People who are highly susceptible can't have these small doses and thus cannot be vaccinated against it.
     
  3. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,364
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    People like you are the reason why the government is doing the right thing!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    idiotic and unrealistic to ask for medicine which is 100% safe... thats 'not how it works'

    Ok well thats precisely why many people are against being forced to take vaccines. If something carries risks it should not be compulsory and every person should be making well informed decisions on their healthcare.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    Yeah, because it would endanger their health. But would it kill you to take the vaccine just to be on the safeside... afterall, vaccines are only harmful to a very small % of the population and the risk is minimal, right?

    Do you see the very argument you are making is faulty because its a risk to you... but you still think everyone else should have it. Sorry mate, im not buying.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,364
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Medicine is not an exact science. Risks are very low. You take a greater risk driving to work. Be reasonable.
     
  7. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    at least when i'm driving to work i'm the one behind the wheel directing the car. When i take a vaccine, i'm letting someone else drive the car.

    I'm a person of faith, but not that much faith!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,364
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Actually there's every chance it would.

    People like me rely on there being a high immunisation rate to avoid health issues. All people I have met with similar issues were aware of their inability to be vaccinated from the start.

    Most people who have reactions to vaccines have minor issues. I had a reaction to a Q-Fever immunisation and had flu symptoms for a week.

    I'm making the argument that if you can be vaccinated you should be. The following excuses are idiotic:

    - Not trusting the government
    - Expecting science to be 100% full proof
    - Religious beliefs against vaccination.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,364
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    You cannot predict the driving behaviour of every motorist you pass though. What if they have a heart attack and veer into your lane?

    You undervalue the science. When we the last outbreak of polio in Australia? Exactly..... end argument.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +1,704
    Religion:
    Catholicism
    Yes, because you know and understand the risks better than the complete consensus of the international medical community. The opposition to vaccines has nothing whatsoever to do with an 'informed' concern over risk, but everything to do with an idiotic ideology and conspiracy peddling. Let's not pretend it's anything otherwise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    13,898
    Ratings:
    +12,673
    Everything in this world carries a risk. You could be killed by a falling plane tomorrow on your way to work. We don't stop living or making decisions just because there's a bit of risk. Risk management means essentially the smaller the risk, the more logical it is to do it anyway.

    Are you a doctor? Are you a Chemist? Are you trained in some field of medical science? If you answered no to these questions, then you're not making a well informed decision on anything to do with your healthcare on your own, are you? You go to a doctor or other medical professional or hell even a dietician (you can even get a second or third opinion if you so desire) they tell you the best course of action based on their recommendations. In regular circumstances, ie medicine that ONLY affects your health, you are free to have hubris enough to ignore trained professionals in the field and do whatever you want.
    In public health circumstances ie if you have an infectious disease, then you shouldn't have that option, because your decision then affects the health of others. It's why people working with the public (retail, hospitality etc) are usually required by the company they work for to stay home off work if they have a serious illness or oftentimes even the common cold/flu. Does this mean people are penalized for being sick? Well sometimes. If you're a casual employee you don't get sick pay. Some companies might even send the casual employee home without pay due to health concerns. So yes, some employees are penalized/punished for being sick. But this is considered acceptable because it ultimately affects public safety.

    Vaccines, by their very nature, affect the entire public, not just those who "choose" not to vaccinate. Therefore punitive measures (I'm not advocating forced vaccines though) should be put in place. If only to try to bring up herd immunity for the safety of the public at large. I'm sorry, but you only should get to make health decisions that only affect you. And that implicitly means decisions that affect people relying on herd immunity to survive should not be up to an individual.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    Half your luck! I had the flu vaccine last year and was sick for 3 months!!! Dont tell me about it. I know. Do you think I would give that same flu vaccine to my kids now that I know how sick they can make a person? Absolutely Not. And im not going to be bullied by anyone into taking something that i know can be harmful.

    People can rant and rave about anti vax's all they like. That is not going to sway my decision. Im not bothered by the bullies and their scare tactics.
     
  13. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    13,898
    Ratings:
    +12,673
    Does the new legislation cover things like the Flu Shots?
     
  14. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    dont know dont care.

    They can withhold every payment they like from me... i'd rather have my health then money anyday.
     
  15. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +1,704
    Religion:
    Catholicism
    I wonder how many would have said that during 1918 outbreak.

    But of course, you know better than medical science.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    13,898
    Ratings:
    +12,673
    Well as long as you're not working with the public or going to the hospital where people with compromised immune systems (or receiving cancer treatment) are wandering around, then whatever.
     
  17. Tiapan

    Tiapan Grumpy Old Man

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,763
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    If I find a real one, I'll let you know!
    Ironically it is not usually the poor on social benefits that are the problem, it is the upper middle class housewives that have become the pseudo-intellectuals in anti-vaccination ranks. Penalizing social benefits will not effect these people as they are not usually on benefits, perhaps we could fine them $1000 per child or similar.
    Obviously in their opinion, google and "Days of our lives" must be more scientifically accurate than Lancet or the American Journal of Medicine & immunology.

    Every year a variety of mutated flu's appear, that's how it survives.

    It is highly likely, being flu season, you have picked up a dose of one of the other lesser prevalent flu viruses, rather than the worse one you were immunized against eg H1N1.
    Did you get your shot after sitting in a waiting room full of sick people perhaps?
    It could very well be just coincidence but you have automatically assigned the cause of your 3 month flu bout to the vaccine. It ain't necessarily so Pegg.

    Your children only have half your DNA the rest is from the father. The reaction to the kids can be quite different to your reaction. If you refuse to vaccinate on the basis of your evidence, I would have no hesitation banning you from my children's school if I had the option.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +1,704
    Religion:
    Catholicism
    I know of one in my extended family that just had her first kid.
     
  19. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    13,450
    Ratings:
    +786
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    Kids learn just as well at home. I'd be happy to teach my kids at home and pay your $1,000 fine ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,925
    Ratings:
    +507
    Religion:
    One of Jehovah's Witnesses
    There is legislation in that regard here in the United States. I personally won't do vaccines for similar reasons. I grew up with CFIDS and just riding in a car past a field being sprayed for bugs would make me ill. I am not as sensitive anymore and I have alternative ways of protecting myself with spice oils and allergy/detox corrections due to knowing the accupressure system well enough.

    But if I wanted to work as a nurse, the law would require me to have a flu vaccine annually and I would have no way around it. That is fine. But I am not a nurse so I am not forced to take that risk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...