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Featured New Atheists?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Policy, Jan 12, 2022.

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  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    It's weird to me that the conversation turned to the US specifically, considering that two of the "Four Horsemen of New Atheism" are/were British.
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Projecting their way of thinking
     
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  3. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    We need words to point at stuff and in the early 2000s there was an increase in visibility of celebrity atheists promoting a belligerent anti-theistic and Rational Humanistic ideology (Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc.). New Atheists are those and people who promote similar views.

    It's a proper noun, not the adjective new applied to atheism suggesting it's genuinely a new form of atheism. Could have called them Dawkinsians or Mooncats or Brights (actually not the last one, no one could be that fatuous :grimacing:)

    Some (irreligous) journalist coined the term because they needed a pithy term to use. This is the article: The Church of the Non-Believers

    When people don't qualify the term atheism when talking about certain atheists with specific opinions, atheists complain. When they do qualify the term atheism when talking about certain atheists, atheists complain that they don't like the aesthetics of the qualification :D
     
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  4. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    So it's not new then really, just some prominent atheists got fed up with the pernicious effect irrational superstition sometimes exert. Why shouldn't atheists be as vocal as theists?
     
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  5. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    What doctrines, atheism has no doctrines, though atheists might.

    religion
    noun
    1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
    That doesn't sound like atheism to me, and it is certainly not my atheism. I've never understood why some apologists want to label atheism a religion anyway, I mean to what end? They can hardly imagine it's an insult or a pejorative can they? That seems like a pretty obvious own goal to me.
     
  6. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Atheism isn't a big deal in the UK, it seems to be a massive deal for some people in the US. Maybe a result of hang-ups from the cold war, and the former Soviet Union being ostensible an atheist state.
     
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  7. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I've come to see it more as just raw dismissiveness and animus. That's not actually skepticism or freethinking at all. I see it time and again. Rational arguments, serious points of view are just attacked as 'woo', or 'new age' etc. That's not actually rationality. It's emotionality.

    Understanding it as anti-theism, as a radical offshoot of atheism, makes a lot of sense to me. I don't dismiss Christianity because of fundamentalists like Pat Robertson and company. Why should we disrespect atheism because of the anti-theists?

    There are a lot of great insights and contributions that come from both theistic and atheistic perspectives. Radical fundamentalists should not define what either of those are. They frankly should just be put in their place.
     
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  8. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    I think this is where you sent all your God-Botherers. :)
     
  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    This is Wikipedia, but I recognize some of it out in the wild on the Internet.
    Just read from here:
    New Atheism - Wikipedia
     
  10. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    In a sense, yes. We call them fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is set apart from the mainstream. So New Atheism, which is really just Anti-theism, is different from 'mainstream' atheism. I suppose they are sort of 'cousins' to it.

    They are the vocal, evangelicals which need to convert everyone to their ways of thinking, away from their religious beliefs and ideas, to the light of the truth they have found. They are missionaries, trying to 'save' the world. Whereas the mainstream, are just trying to figure out how to live in it.
     
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  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, for some atheists the world would in an absurd sense be easier if we all but them were all religious theistic fundamentalists. Then they wouldn't have the problem with those for the mainstream, who go: Wait a minute? Aren't you overdoing your critique of religion? :D
     
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  12. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    New atheists are like the old atheists, with the difference that now they can talk freely.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #92 viole, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    We can't have that. All those agnostics and weak atheists. They are a thread against all rationality and should be taking care off, like all other humans that don't understand how the world works. So go to work viole. ;)
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    This is true. It was in a sense meeting force with force, violence with violence, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. In a lot of ways, to say something positive for it, that is empowering in a sense to call stupidity stupidity. I admit taking some pleasure in that myself.

    But extremes are extremes, on either end of the spectrum. The positive side of this is that when you look at society as a bell curve, the center of it has the most people, whereas the edges has the fewest. The most vocal voices are in the minority, as they try to pull society one way or the other. So the positive thing they do is to get dialog happening in the middle. In a true sense, they have done their job.

    The negative side of this is, that when the middle actually starts to look at these things and consider them with clearer minds and cooler heads, the radicals can't hear them. All they know is their enemies on the far extreme opposite edges they are doing battle with. So someone who is moderate, is lumped in with them, "Woo Woo!!", is hurled at anyone who tries to see what value there is in theism, for instance. I know this in spades by personal experience.

    So while New Atheism/Anti-Theism is on the 'rationalist' side, its inability to engage in actual dialog betrays itself as just as emotional and reactionary, irrational, as the theistic funamentalists. Fundamentalism is not rationality. It's reactionary.

    Maybe this is a good sign? However, we certainly have a share of them here. :)
     
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  15. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I was responding to the OP. But I realize that you are still unaware that you have a doctrine that you promote.

    "In seeking to replace religion with secularism and faith with science, the New Atheists have, perhaps inadvertently, launched a movement with far too many similarities to the ones they so radically oppose. Indeed, while we typically associate fundamentalism with religiously zealotry, in so far as the term connotes an attempt to “impose a single truth on the plural world” – to use the definition of noted philosopher Jonathan Sacks – then there is little doubt that a similar fundamentalist mind-set has overcome many adherents of this latest iteration of anti-theism."
     
  16. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, yes. Universal right and wrong is not limited to religion.
     
  17. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    You may well think that. :)

    Believing that there are limits to rationality in some way or ways does not make one irrational. IMO.
     
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  18. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Something is True.
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, yes. But in practice that likely means something different to you and I. :)
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Atheists do not have any problem with theists till the theists start bragging before them about their God/son/prophet/messenger/manifestation/mahdi/saint. We understand that many of the theists are not capable or trained to understand today's science. They are not courageous enough to leave their crutches.
     
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