1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Neti neti

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Meerkat, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    Could anyone briefly describe a method for the "Neti, neti" practice?
    Thanks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,333
    Ratings:
    +2,897
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    IMO:

    The "Neti .. neti" method means "not this, not that" or "neither this nor that"
    This method is described for some people who want to know Brahman, God
    So you look at your wife thinking "is she God?" soon the answer comes from deep within "Neti ... neti"
    There is quite a lot of "non-God" stuff around us here on earth, so this method can keep your mind busy 24/7/52
    And that exactly is the key, keeping your mind busy and focused, until the mind dissolves, and stops asking these questions
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    Thanks. So presumably this involves actively looking at everything you experience during the day? Noticing more?
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,333
    Ratings:
    +2,897
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    What I understand from it, just a few thoughts that pop up now:

    No need to actively look at everything. But whenever a thought comes you check the thought with "Is this God?"

    There is a similar method when you do Self Enquiry "Who am I". Then also you check any thought and try to bring it back to "Who am I"
    So I would say that this type of method involves "actively looking at the mind = thought stream". This alone will slow it down already.
    Hence they also call it "Witness the Mind" ... "Be a Witness" ... "Constant Integrated Awareness"

    The Goal of this exercise is to know "Who am I"
    Example: Suppose a thought pops up "I want to eat Chinese food tonight"
    Straight away you can ask yourself "Who is the one who wants to eat Chinese food tonight"?

    The Scriptures declare that "Identification with the body, mind, emotions" is what keeps us away from Self Realization
    Hence this method "Who am I" ... "am I the body" ... "no I am not".
    When you die, some people ask "Why have you gone?" ... body is still there, so "who is gone?"

    This is a method we are not used to. Especially in the West we are brainwashed that it's all about how we look like
    To understand this method might take some time. It helped me reading about this. And more and more you become more aware
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    20,167
    Ratings:
    +8,063
    Religion:
    Advaitist Sanatan Hindu and a strong atheist.
    I think Stvdv was having some fun with the question (in his first post). 'Neti, neti' means one should not accept things unless there is solid evidence for it. Yes, one has to look at things very carefully, critically. That it is said by some famous person or mentioned in a certain scripture will not be enough. Monist Hindus accepted the existence of one entity constituting all things in the universe, but did not say much about its properties beyond saying that it is form-independent, eternal and uninvolved in the happenings in the world. For rest all, they will say 'Neti,neti', because no other proposition can hold itself to scrutiny.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    Thanks, interesting stuff. I can see that just using this method with thoughts makes sense - feelings too?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    7,477
    Ratings:
    +1,767
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Remove all logical fallacies, and we're left with something that resembles a possible truth.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    So is this basically about distinguishing between the personal ("me"), and the impersonal, eg "Brahma"?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    21,896
    Ratings:
    +9,608
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    When did "neti, neti" become a practice? It's an expression of ineffability.
     
  10. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    I've seen it described as a practice.

    Neti neti - Wikipedia
     
    #10 Meerkat, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  11. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,333
    Ratings:
    +2,897
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    Very good point. Even if God tells you personally you better reject it, if it does not make any sense
     
  12. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    Could you give an example of the logical fallacies involved?
     
  13. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,333
    Ratings:
    +2,897
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    When you get to the feeling part, it becomes more interesting even.
    You can just start, no need no know all the specifics. By doing it, slowly you get the hang of it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चिदानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    7,034
    Ratings:
    +8,283
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    Neti neti (not this, not this) is the Vedic analysis of negation that aids one in realizing one's true nature. Commonly used in meditation, one focuses on an aspect within one's awareness and realizes that is not who they are in their purest form. Common items focused on...
    • I am aware of my breath, therefore, I am not my breath.
    • I am aware of my body, therefore, I am not my body.
    • I am aware of my thoughts, therefore, I am not my thoughts.
    ..and so on and so on until one realizes one's true nature as pure consciousness.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चिदानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    7,034
    Ratings:
    +8,283
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    I don't think either "practice" or "expression" are accurate descriptions. It's more an examination or analysis.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Meerkat

    Meerkat Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Not sure
    By "practice" I just meant something you do.

    Let's not get hung up on a word.
     
    #16 Meerkat, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,333
    Ratings:
    +2,897
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    You understand it already
    That is in short what the practice is all about
     
  18. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चिदानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    7,034
    Ratings:
    +8,283
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    I don't think anyone was being "hung up" on the word. I think @Valjean sees the concept less as something one does than he sees it an expression of ineffability.

    I was just pointing out that while we both identify as Vedantins, we view the concept of neti neti slightly differently. And that's okay.
     
  19. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,596
    Ratings:
    +3,648
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    21,896
    Ratings:
    +9,608
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Brahman is inconceivable and indescribable. It has no qualities to hang a description on, yet Hinduism has been actively writing about and trying to describe it for millennia -- all the while emphasizing its ineffability.

    "Not this, not this" is just statement reminding one that whatever explanation or description one's just heard is entirely inadequate, if not outright wrong.
    It's not an action, it's not a practice, it's not a doctrine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...