neither evolved nor designed

[Eddi]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

Genesis 1:26 says:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

This logic therefore matches up with scripture. Mankind's "image" pre-dates creation. It was a part of God and therefore uncreated, and therefore undesigned. Although we humans were of course created (in God's image). But he didn't design us, and he didn't design himself either, as he has always existed!

I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???

All raises an interesting problem: OK, so humans are made in the image of Jesus. But we are clearly related to every other life-form on Earth. So, if humans were neither designed nor evolved where does this leave us regarding the origin of life on Earth? Perhaps evolution was guided to produce humankind in God's image and to therefore produce life-forms that are genetically similar and related to humans??? But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Your conclusions flow from your presumptions and have equal worth. As such:

• This thread would have little if any added value in the Christian DIR, and
• is more or less worthless elsewhere.

 

[exchemist]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

Genesis 1:26 says:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

This logic therefore matches up with scripture. Mankind's "image" pre-dates creation. It was a part of God and therefore uncreated, and therefore undesigned. Although we humans were of course created (in God's image). But he didn't design us, and he didn't design himself either, as he has always existed!

I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???

All raises an interesting problem: OK, so humans are made in the image of Jesus. But we are clearly related to every other life-form on Earth. So, if humans were neither designed nor evolved where does this leave us regarding the origin of life on Earth? Perhaps evolution was guided to produce humankind in God's image and to therefore produce life-forms that are genetically similar and related to humans??? But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

Yes. Arguing against science on the basis of a particular interpretation of scripture (there is no reading of scripture that does not involve interpretation) is a doomed enterprise, so don't do that. Look instead for ways of reading scripture that don't conflict with it.

Start by thinking of what is meant by Man being created in God's image. Do we really imagine God has a physical appearance like a man, with 2 arms, 2 legs etc? How can that make sense if God is "immortal, invisible", as the hymn says? Is it not more likely that being made in God's image relates to something spiritual about Man?

If that is right, then being made in God's image does not conflict with the science of evolution at all, since that is concerned only with physical things and has nothing to say about any spiritual dimension to existence.

 

[`mud]

I didn't read all of that verbiage, but gods and their emanations don't really count.
There's only Earth and the creatures on it, there's only Life and the Stuff with it.

 

[`mud]

All of our Spirits are merged somewhere, here with Life,
or floating in a merger of Stuff, of those so long deceased.

 

[`mud]

You'll have to add the imagination !
And the lack of transparency

 

[PureX]

BOTH evolved an designed, as evolution is the natural expression of existential design.

 

[`mud]

External cartilage, no bones, some with no cartilage at all !
Isn't evolution wonderful !

 

[`mud]

Existentialism is an individual’s way of finding his true meaning of Life and it's Stuff. The philosophy explains that each individual has their own way of finding and choosing their own path in life. Each individual’s search for Life’s meaning is achieved through one's own choice, free will and self-responsibility.

 

[Ponder This]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

Genesis 1:26 says:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

This logic therefore matches up with scripture. Mankind's "image" pre-dates creation. It was a part of God and therefore uncreated, and therefore undesigned. Although we humans were of course created (in God's image). But he didn't design us, and he didn't design himself either, as he has always existed!

I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???

All raises an interesting problem: OK, so humans are made in the image of Jesus. But we are clearly related to every other life-form on Earth. So, if humans were neither designed nor evolved where does this leave us regarding the origin of life on Earth? Perhaps evolution was guided to produce humankind in God's image and to therefore produce life-forms that are genetically similar and related to humans??? But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

+1 for finding a False Dilemma as disproving the one does not prove the other.

 

[icehorse]

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

In general, logical arguments should be used only to explore falsifiable claims. Because your first assumption is not falsifiable, the rest of the argument doesn't mean anything from a logical perspective.

Science is science, and faith is faith. I think it's a mistake to try to prove faith via science and logic.

 

[`mud]

Ahhhh.....wherefore does gravity come ??

How `black` is ``black`` ?

 

[Kenny]

Your conclusions flow from your presumptions and have equal worth. As such:

• This thread would have little if any added value in the Christian DIR, and
• is more or less worthless elsewhere.

ditto

 

[George-ananda]

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

And I believe both!

I see intelligence in nature and an insufficiency of the argument that this all came from random chance with only the physical laws applies.

 

[james dixon]

But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

I do not believe in “evolution” but rather adaptation to the environment they are living in.

The hardest thing I have to wrap my mind around is the vast diversity of life on this planet. For lack of another plausible reason, I believe earth was seeded by visitors just as we will seed uninhabited planets in the future.

Here are a few of the millions of creatures on earth today---

And I do not believe they evolved but rather adapted

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

Genesis 1:26 says:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

This logic therefore matches up with scripture. Mankind's "image" pre-dates creation. It was a part of God and therefore uncreated, and therefore undesigned. Although we humans were of course created (in God's image). But he didn't design us, and he didn't design himself either, as he has always existed!

I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???

All raises an interesting problem: OK, so humans are made in the image of Jesus. But we are clearly related to every other life-form on Earth. So, if humans were neither designed nor evolved where does this leave us regarding the origin of life on Earth? Perhaps evolution was guided to produce humankind in God's image and to therefore produce life-forms that are genetically similar and related to humans??? But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

Begin with the facts of science; it has been determined beyond any reasonable doubt that our universe is ~13.7 billion years old, the earth is ~4.534 billion years old. Life began soon after at ~4,5 billion and life evolved and all life including humanity are physically related.

As far as I am concerned our physical existence exists as it is, and you have two choices (1) Our physical existence is Created by God and reflects the attributes of God. (2) Our physical existence is simply the product of Natural Laws and processes, and we are likely one universe among many,

God is a Creator as it is and not an engineer that designs and than builds.

 

[shunyadragon]

I do not believe in “evolution” but rather adaptation to the environment they are living in.

Same thing life began and evolved as an adaptation to the environment that existed over the history of life on earth. The environment and changes in the environment is the driving force behind abiogenesis and evolution.

 

[1213]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:
...
....I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???
...

Bible tells Jesus is the image of God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. …
Colossians 1:14-16

And, if you would paint an image of you to some canvas, is the canvas not designed?

 

[shunyadragon]

Bible tells Jesus is the image of God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. …
Colossians 1:14-16

And, if you would paint an image of you to some canvas, is the canvas not designed?

Canvas not designed, because it was Created.

 

[Bird123]

I don't know if this has been done before, but here we go:

Some say the human body evolved. Others that it was designed.

The debate is framed as Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

I don't believe either...

Because of both logic and scripture (I am writing from a Christian perspective). Apologies if this is a little messy, but I think it works:

1) Jesus existed before this (or any other) universe was created
2) Jesus has a human form and is fully human
4) Jesus is (fully) God
5) Humans are made in God’s image
6) God is uncreated and certainly not designed - he has always been, and transcends time and causation
7) God had a human form (in Jesus)

Conclusion 1: the human body neither evolved nor was it designed

Conclusion 2: humans were created by God but not designed by him and (it pains me to say this but this is where my logic has lead me) neither did we truly evolve - we occurred through guided evolution (I will go into this a little later in this post)

Genesis 1:26 says:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

This logic therefore matches up with scripture. Mankind's "image" pre-dates creation. It was a part of God and therefore uncreated, and therefore undesigned. Although we humans were of course created (in God's image). But he didn't design us, and he didn't design himself either, as he has always existed!

I think more specifically, (and I'm writing here as a Christian) we can say that humankind was made in the image of Jesus???

All raises an interesting problem: OK, so humans are made in the image of Jesus. But we are clearly related to every other life-form on Earth. So, if humans were neither designed nor evolved where does this leave us regarding the origin of life on Earth? Perhaps evolution was guided to produce humankind in God's image and to therefore produce life-forms that are genetically similar and related to humans??? But would this truly be evolution? I don't know... Any ideas?

How about this: We are Spiritual beings in our true natures. That is who we are. Since God is also a Spiritual Being, we are in God's image.

This physical world exists for only one reason. It's time-based causal nature is Perfect for learning.

If you were going to create it all, how would you do it? POOF it's there or create it all from a single point to expand and unfold in such a way that the kiddies would be able to figure it all out in time? It's just like a seed can grow into a giant tree.

You have to remember that at God's IQ level there will be Genius behind it. The True answers reach far beyond POOF.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!