Need advice... Clashing feelings about faiths!

[nazz]

Thank you for the detailed advice. I'm going to try though I'm not sure if I'll keep it up. I tend to avoid things that make me uncomfortable. I've got a lot of pain in my past and even present. I worry a lot about the future too.

Have you tried looking into sufism?

 

[illykitty]

Have you tried looking into sufism?

A little, I tried to learn more about it but had trouble finding free online information at the time.

 

[illykitty]

So, now I'm starting to look into practices from various religions to improve myself (things like patience, gratefulness, discipline, etc.) but I only know loving-kindness and breath focus, plus there's the recommendations from last page too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I need to search more and find more recommendations from various backgrounds. Buddhism though seems like one of the best sources afaik, I'll be spending some time on Buddhanet.

 

[illykitty]

I found today, I get a much higher spiritual feeling from thinking about the universe and our connection, oneness with it, than anything else. I think about nature, the stars and the universe, the awe and beauty that fills me is indescribable. I don't know if that's how people feel about god(s) but that's the closest to a religious experience I've got.

I guess what I'm trying to say, it relates to my *pan(en)theism and nature reverence. That's my source of spirituality.

*I've put (en) because honestly, I don't mind being called either. Makes no difference to me. It also depends on future scientific discoveries. I'll adjust my beliefs accordingly.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Ever visited the Makkah Haramin your Muslims days, Illiy?

 

[illykitty]

Ever visited the Makkah Haramin your Muslims days, Illiy?

Nope, just saw pictures and videos. I wasn't into Islam long enough for that (and also would have been near impossible for me to go anyway, for many reasons).

I know where you're going with that, but I personally think it's the experience of oneness, connection with all other human beings in one place, doing the same thing, must be amazing.

Though I estimate that I'll still think this to be more impressive... Think of someone, a single human being, so small, being one with something as incomprehensibly huge as the universe... And the universe is in us too (we are made of star stuff as Carl Sagan said).

 

[DreadFish]

So, now I'm starting to look into practices from various religions to improve myself (things like patience, gratefulness, discipline, etc.) but I only know loving-kindness and breath focus, plus there's the recommendations from last page too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I need to search more and find more recommendations from various backgrounds. Buddhism though seems like one of the best sources afaik, I'll be spending some time on Buddhanet.

I found today, I get a much higher spiritual feeling from thinking about the universe and our connection, oneness with it, than anything else. I think about nature, the stars and the universe, the awe and beauty that fills me is indescribable. I don't know if that's how people feel about god(s) but that's the closest to a religious experience I've got.

I guess what I'm trying to say, it relates to my *pan(en)theism and nature reverence. That's my source of spirituality.

*I've put (en) because honestly, I don't mind being called either. Makes no difference to me. It also depends on future scientific discoveries. I'll adjust my beliefs accordingly.

You might do well to look into some (philosophical) Taoist stuff. Mainly, the Tao Te Ching and the Hua Hu Ching. There are a few practices like Qi Gong, and Tao Yin (very much like Hatha Yoga), as well as meditative practices like zuowang, which was probably influenced by the Buddhist Ch'an practices. Mainly, I think you might like reading the Tao Te Ching. I personally recommend the Stephen Mitchell translation, as I think it really captures the spirit of it.

There's a difference between Philosophical Taoism and Religious Taoism, the latter being heavily influenced by Chinese culture and folk beliefs and having Gods and Immortals and rituals. To me, these have little value, so I prefer to focus on the philosophical teachings about living and life.

 

[illykitty]

You might do well to look into some (philosophical) Taoist stuff. Mainly, the Tao Te Ching and the Hua Hu Ching. There are a few practices like Qi Gong, and Tao Yin (very much like Hatha Yoga), as well as meditative practices like zuowang, which was probably influenced by the Buddhist Ch'an practices. Mainly, I think you might like reading the Tao Te Ching. I personally recommend the Stephen Mitchell translation, as I think it really captures the spirit of it.

There's a difference between Philosophical Taoism and Religious Taoism, the latter being heavily influenced by Chinese culture and folk beliefs and having Gods and Immortals and rituals. To me, these have little value, so I prefer to focus on the philosophical teachings about living and life.

I read the Tao Te Ching already actually, a few times, with different translations, including with really simple and modern wording. I need to re-read it, again and again. I'm not sure I understand it at all. I'm not sure what the Tao even is. I don't like it when things aren't defined, even if it's counter to the text (Tao is nameless, bla bla bla, mumbo jumbo). It sort of annoys me.

I do appreciate the recommendation though, it's just Taoism is quite frustrating to me.

Edit: I hope my tone isn't harsh, just communicating my frustration with myself not understanding Tao well.

 

[Madhuri]

And the universe is in us too (we are made of star stuff as Carl Sagan said).

That is also the Hindu concept

 

[illykitty]

That is also the Hindu concept

Yeah, Hinduism is brilliant.

There are some religions I like more than others like Hinduism, Sikhism... I still feel as I can't just stick to any of them. It's hard to tell why, because I agree with a lot of these two, for example. I don't feel at home with any religion.

But I really appreciate the teaching they bring and the Bhagavad Gita is still such a pleasure to read!

 

[Madhuri]

Yeah, Hinduism is brilliant.

There are some religions I like more than others like Hinduism, Sikhism... I still feel as I can't just stick to any of them. It's hard to tell why, because I agree with a lot of these two, for example. I don't feel at home with any religion.

But I really appreciate the teaching they bring and the Bhagavad Gita is still such a pleasure to read!

Do you think that you need a specific religion? Perhaps enlightenment can be reached without religion.

 

[illykitty]

Do you think that you need a specific religion? Perhaps enlightenment can be reached without religion.

Well, at the moment, I don't think I need a religion. My mental and emotional state seems a bit better since taking this approach... I feel it's best if I stick to it, at least for now.

Maybe one can... I'm not too worried about that, just try to do my best.

 

[DreadFish]

I read the Tao Te Ching already actually, a few times, with different translations, including with really simple and modern wording. I need to re-read it, again and again. I'm not sure I understand it at all. I'm not sure what the Tao even is. I don't like it when things aren't defined, even if it's counter to the text (Tao is nameless, bla bla bla, mumbo jumbo). It sort of annoys me.

I do appreciate the recommendation though, it's just Taoism is quite frustrating to me.

Edit: I hope my tone isn't harsh, just communicating my frustration with myself not understanding Tao well.

Actually, it's deceptively simple. Lao Tzu starts the book by explaining that the truth of reality cannot be understood through concepts and that words are only indicators. So, any idea of reality or the absolute is just an idea of it, not the absolute itself. This is stated first as a disclaimer that what follows is only the Tao that can be spoken and any of the ideas are just ideas of the thing, not the thing itself. So, the name that can be named is just the finger pointing to the moon, not the real nature itself.
Also, any allusion to duality of opposites is there to illustrate their dependence on each other to exist, which ultimately implies their oneness. Anyone who says Taoism is dualistic does not understand.

Consider that the Tao, which literally means the Way, is sort of like the nature of things and the way that all things follow. The less you ideate, the closer you are to understanding it. From this perspective, the only practices are to stop holding on to ideas and relaxedly ride the wave of life. There's nothing to attain, it's about letting go of artificiality until you rest in naturalness, which happens of it's own accord, because that's the way of things.

 

[illykitty]

Actually, it's deceptively simple. Lao Tzu starts the book by explaining that the truth of reality cannot be understood through concepts and that words are only indicators. So, any idea of reality or the absolute is just an idea of it, not the absolute itself. This is stated first as a disclaimer that what follows is only the Tao that can be spoken and any of the ideas are just ideas of the thing, not the thing itself. So, the name that can be named is just the finger pointing to the moon, not the real nature itself.
Also, any allusion to duality of opposites is there to illustrate their dependence on each other to exist, which ultimately implies their oneness. Anyone who says Taoism is dualistic does not understand.

Consider that the Tao, which literally means the Way, is sort of like the nature of things and the way that all things follow. The less you ideate, the closer you are to understanding it. From this perspective, the only practices are to stop holding on to ideas and relaxedly ride the wave of life. There's nothing to attain, it's about letting go of artificiality until you rest in naturalness, which happens of it's own accord, because that's the way of things.

Thank you, I'll think about it. To be honest, I don't feel it's simple, but I'm the type that has to intellectualise everything. It's terribly hard to think of things as "just is", I seek answers and to understand what's behind everything.

Lately I feel I've almost gone full circle in my life. I still feel spiritual but the theist aspect is fading, I'm thinking more in line with deism. I'm not sure if it's because I am a bit pessimistic since a few days or if there's some realisation.

If a label is useful at all, it would be Agnostic Pan(en)deism.

 

[illykitty]

Feeling anxious and doubtful about myself. Bleh, why is this so complicated? At the moment I'm asking myself "what am I doing?" and "where is this going?" cause I feel I'm not getting anything out of this. *Sigh*

 

[Phil25]

Okay now this will probably come off as someone very contradictory and confused but if anyone can bare with me... I said in the thread "Reason to not be Muslim":




I know it's going to sound contradictory, but at the same time, the reasons I gave aren't really all that bad, for example, some Muslims believe in equality for all, and leave judgement to Allah. My friend also spoke of interfaith marriages, between a Muslim woman she knows. As for the God issues, it's hard to really know and also, as said, some things make no sense but can be because God indeed knows what's best for us. Why wouldn't God have both mercy but also feel angry or dissapointed about us?

Anyway, that's one side of myself. I can't seem to deny that I'm interested in Islam, always have a strong fascination with it since I discovered it. Also I keep having many dreams about it, especially if I ignore it for a while, about being a Muslim, converting or being sorrounded by them. I'm not sure how to interpret it. I wanted to convert a few months ago but I think I chickened out.

The other side of me is what I constructed, Panentheism, mixed with nature reverence similar to Paganism and some Buddhist practises and philosophy. But sometimes it feels fake and made up (well yes, made by myself). How do I know what the divine is? It feels pretentious!

I feel like I'm having a double life! How can I solve this annoying conflict? Is there any meaning in my constant dreams? Or am I overthinking? :areyoucra

Just curious. Were you raised in a specific religion?

 

[DreadFish]

Feeling anxious and doubtful about myself. Bleh, why is this so complicated? At the moment I'm asking myself "what am I doing?" and "where is this going?" cause I feel I'm not getting anything out of this. *Sigh*

I've certainly felt similar. For the longest time, i've looked for some spiritual path to identify with and be a part of, yet there's always something that gets in the way.

I think we over-complicate things a lot when we don't need to. My view is that the purpose of a spiritual path is to give us freedom and peace, so try not to let it get you down too much. Keep on truckin' and try to take it easy; there's no way to force life! That's my experience.

You're not alone in this kind of situation

 

[illykitty]

Just curious. Were you raised in a specific religion?

Nope, both my parents aren't religious. I think they believe in some sort of God but it's not specific.

I've certainly felt similar. For the longest time, i've looked for some spiritual path to identify with and be a part of, yet there's always something that gets in the way.

I think we over-complicate things a lot when we don't need to. My view is that the purpose of a spiritual path is to give us freedom and peace, so try not to let it get you down too much. Keep on truckin' and try to take it easy; there's no way to force life! That's my experience.

You're not alone in this kind of situation

Thank you, I won't give up... It's just hard at times. It's a really bumpy ride.

 

[Susanpalli,JW]

Nope, both my parents aren't religious. I think they believe in some sort of God but it's not specific.



Thank you, I won't give up... It's just hard at times. It's a really bumpy ride.

Well for me, prayer to the God of the Bible helped me to find my path. If God almighty exists, He will answer sincere prayers. It's worth a try. I will pray for you too.

 

[CEMB]

Feeling anxious and doubtful about myself. Bleh, why is this so complicated? At the moment I'm asking myself "what am I doing?" and "where is this going?" cause I feel I'm not getting anything out of this. *Sigh*

Hi illykitty,

Sounds like you don't feel you have a purpose at the moment and by studying religion you hope to find that purpose. Studying different religions is a positive experience in itself even if you can't choose one.The more you learn about religion/s the more you will learn about yourself and your purpose. That has been my experience anyway. Pretty gutsy, though, to share your thoughts with everyone.
Good luck with your search.

Cemb