1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Near Death experiences and the scientific method.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by leroy, Sep 30, 2021.

  1. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    13,014
    Ratings:
    +6,788
    Uh nope. Not even sure what that means.

    I've told you several times now that I am interested in believing as many true things as possible and not believing in false things.

    I haven't dismissed any possibilities of anything. I'm asking for EVIDENCE in order to believe something. I'm asking for a demonstration that your claims are even possible to begin with. I really, really wish you could grasp that concept. Not accepting something is not the same thing as declaring it to be false.

    I don't.

    Yeah, that's the thing. The "answers" I get are woo woo and not actual demonstrations of the veracity of the claims being made.

    Demonstrate that such a reality exists please.


    Do you have evidence, or not?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    What you believe or don't believe pertains to your own karma, you must deal with it yourself. How else do you think you can know first hand instead of relying on someone else to provide you with a narrative you can believe.
     
  3. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    I too do not believe in false things, so that is a good starting point.

    I am saying that the universal spirit is of the 95% dark universe, now you may not believe this to be true, but you do not know categorically that it is false just because you have not yet seen objective proof. Lack of proof of a claim is not evidence of falsehood, it just means a certain claim is yet to be proven.

    For that reason I find agnostics are more reasonable, they too withhold acceptance of the claim of there being a spiritual reality because they have yet not seen sufficient evidence, but this lack of evidence they personally have not seen to date is not sufficient to logically conclude that the claim is categorically false.
     
  4. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    13,014
    Ratings:
    +6,788
    How do you know that you don't believe false things, given that you can't demonstrate the veracity of your claims?

    Neither of us know if it is true, so I have no idea how you've concluded that it is true (or what "the universal spirit is of the 95% dark universe" even means).

    Again, I'm not saying it's false. I have no idea why you can't grasp this concept I have explained no less than 3 times now. Not believing a thing doesn't mean a person is claiming it is false. What I am saying is, how do we know it's true? How can it be shown to be true? Without that, we can't say it's true. That doesn't mean I'm claiming it is false.

    Seriously, do you not read my posts all the way through? I'm not stating it is false. I'm asking how it can be shown to be true.

    I'm an agnostic atheist.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    How do you know you do not believe in false things?

    So finally you admit to being agnostic, you accept that it is possible there may be spiritual realms after all. :hugehug:
     
  6. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    13,014
    Ratings:
    +6,788
    Because I make a point to believe in things for which there is demonstrable evidence.

    That doesn't mean I don't believe false things - I very well could. But my interest is NOT believing in false things and so I do everything in my power to seek out verifiable, demonstrable, repeatable evidence for the claims I accept as convincing.
    Admit? That's a weird choice of words. I'm an agnostic atheist and have been for about 20 years.

    Besides that, I've pointed out in virtually every post made to you that I don't rule out "spiritual realms," rather, I've seen no evidence to convince me that such things exist, and so I don't believe in them. Hence my continually asking for evidence backing up the claims that said things do exist.

    It seems you might finally be getting it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    So we are kindred souls wrt not believing in false things.

    So all this time I must admit to presuming your position was pure atheist, I am happy to discover an agnostic, gosh you're halfway there. :)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    2,029
    Ratings:
    +854
    Religion:
    Not religious
    You were correct the whole time that SkepticThinker was a pure atheist. And presently, if he doesn't believe that a god exist, then he's still a pure atheist. A hybrid of atheist and theist is a logical contradiction.
     
  9. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    Skeptic Thinker is not a hybrid, but is an agnostic, She allows that even though she herself has not experienced evidence of a spiritual reality, that in itself is not proof that one does not exist.
     
  10. Lekatt

    Lekatt Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2021
    Messages:
    162
    Ratings:
    +44
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    What makes you believe that beliefs are not real. Is that your belief? Where did you come by that belief? Please explain what you mean when you say the spiritual state is not duelist. I really want to know more.
     
  11. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    Religion:
    Non-atheistic
    A belief is a mental state that is meant to represent something real, but that something, even it is real, exists independently of the belief, and in no way depends on anyone believing or disbelieving in it.
    So you believe in God, an atheist believes there is no God, whether God exists or not does not depend on either of your beliefs.

    The danger of belief in God wrt religious practice is that the believer may imagine that is all there is to it, but if God is real, a truly religious aspirant must realize God, to know God. Knowing is different from belief in God. That is what Jesus meant when he called out the Rabbis of his day, they spoke and taught about the scripture pertaining to God, but did not go through the door that leads to realizing God.

    Here is where your second question comes in, a belief is dualistic, there is you the believer in God otoh, and there is God the reality of the other. This is analogous to the preacher preaching about God. Then there is the non-dualist state of having gone beyond the belief in God and have realized God directly, the Father and I are one state. Remember the Corinthians piece that says our bodies are not who we are, but are temples of the living God. God is with us, if this is so, go beyond the belief and be that, because God is not separate from us, rather we are truly an expression of God. Go from belief to realization is going from having a dualistic relationship to a non-dual unity.
     
Loading...