NDE, visions of God or lies from satan?

[Audie]

I think the most interesting ones are the people who fly out into space and talk with the stars and galaxies, that's flipping AWESOME lol.

Ok so you are here just to make fun of people
who tried to take you seriously.

 

[metis]

Are people's near death experiences true visions of the afterlife or are they a deception from satan?

"I don't know" is my response, plus I also simply do not know if there's an actual "Satan" or whether this is some sort of figment of imagination or a symbolic reference to evil. Nor do I lose any sleep over this.

 

[Quintessence]

What, in your view, does it mean for something to be "satanic?" Satan isn't a figure of importance or regard for many peoples of the world (myself included), so it would be helpful to describe what you mean by it for context. Based on what you believe "satanic" to mean, how would we go about determining whether or not something is "satanic?"

 

[dingdao]

I have studied this topic myself as I too am very interested. One thing I found when looking into this across different cultures and religions is that nde's tend to match the religion of the one having the experience.

The interpretation of the experience is mashed into what is known by the person.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you're talking about the brain releasing DMT during a death experience, and apoxia what not, that makes sense! I believe though through personal experience that god is real, yet I completely understand why atheists do not! I've had some far out stuff happen in my life, and as a very small child I remember feeling the love of god. Going to church to me was like "aha! So THAT'S what that is". If you have never had a spiritual experience, it only makes sense to not believe it.

NDEr's find it very hard to explain, but they say that they are absolutely certain that it wasn't a dream. That wherever they went was more "real" than this place. They have trouble articulating the LOVE they experience, nothing on earth compares there is no frame of reference. They also have a sense of being "home", of the whole thing being familiar. I think the most impressive evidence is how transformative it is for these people. It literally changes their whole lives, they are different people.

I'm talking about there being no need for any "supernatural" or otherwise fantastical explanation for NDE's.

 

[ChristineM]

Hi everyone!

I am almost literally, obsessed with this topic. I can't help it! It's practically all I think about in my spare time, all I research and meditate on. Obviously it's extremely important to me lol, and now that I have found your wondeful site I finally found the place to discuss it with the right mix of people. Thank you for that guys!!! Whoop whoop you all rock no matter what you believe ❤

Here is the question:

Are people's near death experiences true visions of the afterlife or are they a deception from satan?

Feel free to skip the rest of this post and answer if you like

To me, there is no more important question to be asked/answered.

A little back story. (Or a lot sorry guys)- I was once a devout christian. 10 years ago if you told me that I would not be a christian today, I would have genuinely laughed at you. I was a true believer, sincere and as pure of heart as a person can be. But I had this nagging splinter in my spiritual mind. Every time I heard the doctrine of hell preached, I think I literally raised a shield over my heart unconsciously. Once that became a conscious phenomenon, I decided I had to do something about it. Namely, study, pray, and search.

I found The Restitution of All Things by Andrew Jukes. What a balm that book was to my soul!!! I devoured it. I discovered early christian philosophies, and Origen. That was all new to me.

At that time it turned out that it was only a matter of misinterpretation! Fire and brimstone are cleansing and purifying. Jesus is the jubilee of jubilees! So many other things I have since forgotten. But it was BEAUTIFUL!!!!

I remember the day, the first day I believed that NO ONE goes to hell forever. Very clearly I remember it! I got into my car, drove around, and every single person I saw made me weep with joy! I was a weeping lunatic lol. Looking at everyone, saying I will see you in heaven! And you and you and YOU and you and you.... Lol. It was a magically beautiful moment.

So naturally, being brimming over with joy at this good news I brought it to the elders, and my brother, who at the time was in school getting his bachelors degree. He was actively studying greek and hebrew and fully immersed in it.

These people who I fully trusted, were able to systematically shut me down. I wasn't studying greek and hebrew. I wasn't going to school or had not graduated from school, with the qualifications to make keen observations. By and large, the answer I remember, when I pressed them in my exuberant passion, was "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts". That's when I was doing well lol. When I was really making them work for it.

I think one day, and it wasn't a fully conscious decision, I said "I do not believe this". I was teaching music ministry to youth group at the time. Just one DAY! POP! was GONE. Talk about a crisis.

Now skip to the end! If you've read all this I thank you kindly. Sorry for being verbose but I feel context is necessary.

So I "popped" out of christianity. I think it was 2 years later or so, when I finally had to have the talk with my parents. That I no longer believed. Boy, that was hard.

So after that whole ordeal, I found myself wandering and searching. I found little to stimulate me spiritually. I looked into different faiths, ba'hai particularly and bahaullah (sorry if spelled wrong). But nothing was speaking to my spirit, really. Nothing was stimulating me like Jesus did.

Until I found Near Death Experiences. It was kind of a eureka moment! Go straight to the horse's mouth. These people clinically died man! They were revived and able to tell their experiences.

To me, this was IT! No need to listen to people who lived thousands of years ago. These people, went there FIRST HAND.

So unless I am wanting to write a book, I should leave it there. So sorry!

Joe Schmoe who died in the O.R. and floated around the hospital, before being sucked up in the tunnel to meet the light... WHY IS HIS EXPERIENCE SATANIC. He says, that God is love and light, and not to worry about a thing. WHY can't we listen, to him?

When I found NDE's I soaked them up like a sponge. They resonate with my highest self. The truths that my spirit knows but cannot express.

Please guys! Tell me your thoughts. This is what my life is all about. I am also a talented artist and musician. I believe that God is putting tremendous pressure on me, so that I proclaim the real good news. My heart is decwptively wicked my brother would say. I create god in my own image in order to justify living a sinful life.

But how is wanting every single person who ever lived, to be reconciled to God, wicked in any way? I asked him that and he quoted scripture to me.

Sorry loves! I'm on fire over here. Again if yoy've read all of this THANK you for your time ❤

First, welcome to RF.



And now, real NDEs, 3 of them


My father was mugged, wound up with a broken skull and was in coma for a month. He died 3 times and later told the stories of his deaths.

First one, he said the only reason returned is because god is a lousy poker player.

Second time he went towards the light, there was no one home so he he came back.

Third time there was a lion king guarding the gates to prevent him entering.


Now the reality,
Mother, my husband and i were by his side in hospital and passing the time by playing cards when his heart stopped. The staff brought him back. Even in the coma he was aware of his family paying cards, his heart stopped but his brain was still functioning.

Next time was early in the morning, there was no one in the room but there was a night light on.

Third time i was with him on my own, i was wearing a lion king tee shirt

Although not a religious man he was raised in the church of england and respects the church. He still holds a belief that there at least may be a god. Were his NDEs visions of his god?

Nah!!! simply his brain working with what it had in the last moments.

 

[ComaToast]

Ok so you are here just to make fun of people
who tried to take you seriously.

Hello! I was quite serious, I'm not sure what you mean? I find the NDE experiences where people fly out into the cosmos absolutely fascinating. The stars welcome them home. How cool is that!? Sorry if I offended you or seemed to be flippant.

 

[Audie]

Hello! I was quite serious, I'm not sure what you mean? I find the NDE experiences where people fly out into the cosmos absolutely fascinating. The stars welcome them home. How cool is that!? Sorry if I offended you or seemed to be flippant.

Hmm. I guess I'd rather you were joking than serious.
Sorry you are in such a state, I will leave you to it.

 

[ComaToast]

First, welcome to RF.



And now, real NDEs, 3 of them


My father was mugged, wound up with a broken skull and was in coma for a month. He died 3 times and later told the stories of his deaths.

First one, he said the only reason returned is because god is a lousy poker player.

Second time he went towards the light, there was no one home so he he came back.

Third time there was a lion king guarding the gates to prevent him entering.


Now the reality,
Mother, my husband and i were by his side in hospital and passing the time by playing cards when his heart stopped. The staff brought him back. Even in the coma he was aware of his family paying cards, his heart stopped but his brain was still functioning.

Next time was early in the morning, there was no one in the room but there was a night light on.

Third time i was with him on my own, i was wearing a lion king tee shirt

Although not a religious man he was raised in the church of england and respects the church. He still holds a belief that there at least may be a god. Were his NDEs visions of his god?

Nah!!! simply his brain working with what it had in the last moments.

Thanks Christine nice to meet you!

That sounds very reasonable, I bet that's exactly what happened.

 

[ComaToast]

What, in your view, does it mean for something to be "satanic?" Satan isn't a figure of importance or regard for many peoples of the world (myself included), so it would be helpful to describe what you mean by it for context. Based on what you believe "satanic" to mean, how would we go about determining whether or not something is "satanic?"

I guess I'm referring to the definition of satan I was taught. The great deceiver who appears as an angel of light, who rebelled against god, the personification of pure evil. I don't necessarily believe in this concept of evil anymore.

 

[Woberts]

"dead know nothing."

Lord Snow is inclined to agree.

 

[ComaToast]

Hmm. I guess I'd rather you were joking than serious.
Sorry you are in such a state, I will leave you to it.

Ok thanks, have a great day!

 

[anna.]

You presented a false dichotomy and ignored the most likely explanation. They appear to be the natural result of the brain shutting down.

I was going to offer those two same points, but fortunately decided to read the thread before replying to the OP. : )

The recognition of a false dilemma needs nothing added, but will add that while biological reasons for NDEs make a logical although complex hypothesis, it would be pretty much impossible to convince a believer that they didn't see what they saw as actual real-time experience rather than the results of retrieved memories and dying neurons (which don't abruptly turn off like flipping a switch, electrical impulses aside).

Having acknowledge that: as a lifelong believer until going through a crisis of doubt from which I haven't recovered (so everything I thought I believed is still in flux) - it's really something to watch a loved one die and see the complete awe and joy on their face as they encounter a long-deceased relative. I've seen that, and it's unforgettable.

 

[Audie]

I was going to offer those two same points, but fortunately decided to read the thread before replying to the OP. : )

The recognition of a false dilemma needs nothing added, but will add that while biological reasons for NDEs make a logical although complex hypothesis, it would be pretty much impossible to convince a believer that they didn't see what they saw as actual real-time experience rather than the results of retrieved memories and dying neurons (which don't abruptly turn off like flipping a switch, electrical impulses aside).

Having acknowledge that: as a lifelong believer until going through a crisis of doubt from which I haven't recovered (so everything I thought I believed is still in flux) - it's really something to watch a loved one die and see the complete awe and joy on their face as they encounter a long-deceased relative. I've seen that, and it's unforgettable.

How do you know that is what they "saw"?

At the other end of life, I was so interested watching
a baby who was by turns making faces of joy, confusion,
anger, fear, etc, which I suppose had nothing to do
with those actual emotions.

 

[viole]

Hi everyone!

I am almost literally, obsessed with this topic. I can't help it! It's practically all I think about in my spare time, all I research and meditate on. Obviously it's extremely important to me lol, and now that I have found your wondeful site I finally found the place to discuss it with the right mix of people. Thank you for that guys!!! Whoop whoop you all rock no matter what you believe ❤

Here is the question:

Are people's near death experiences true visions of the afterlife or are they a deception from satan?

Feel free to skip the rest of this post and answer if you like

To me, there is no more important question to be asked/answered.

A little back story. (Or a lot sorry guys)- I was once a devout christian. 10 years ago if you told me that I would not be a christian today, I would have genuinely laughed at you. I was a true believer, sincere and as pure of heart as a person can be. But I had this nagging splinter in my spiritual mind. Every time I heard the doctrine of hell preached, I think I literally raised a shield over my heart unconsciously. Once that became a conscious phenomenon, I decided I had to do something about it. Namely, study, pray, and search.

I found The Restitution of All Things by Andrew Jukes. What a balm that book was to my soul!!! I devoured it. I discovered early christian philosophies, and Origen. That was all new to me.

At that time it turned out that it was only a matter of misinterpretation! Fire and brimstone are cleansing and purifying. Jesus is the jubilee of jubilees! So many other things I have since forgotten. But it was BEAUTIFUL!!!!

I remember the day, the first day I believed that NO ONE goes to hell forever. Very clearly I remember it! I got into my car, drove around, and every single person I saw made me weep with joy! I was a weeping lunatic lol. Looking at everyone, saying I will see you in heaven! And you and you and YOU and you and you.... Lol. It was a magically beautiful moment.

So naturally, being brimming over with joy at this good news I brought it to the elders, and my brother, who at the time was in school getting his bachelors degree. He was actively studying greek and hebrew and fully immersed in it.

These people who I fully trusted, were able to systematically shut me down. I wasn't studying greek and hebrew. I wasn't going to school or had not graduated from school, with the qualifications to make keen observations. By and large, the answer I remember, when I pressed them in my exuberant passion, was "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts". That's when I was doing well lol. When I was really making them work for it.

I think one day, and it wasn't a fully conscious decision, I said "I do not believe this". I was teaching music ministry to youth group at the time. Just one DAY! POP! was GONE. Talk about a crisis.

Now skip to the end! If you've read all this I thank you kindly. Sorry for being verbose but I feel context is necessary.

So I "popped" out of christianity. I think it was 2 years later or so, when I finally had to have the talk with my parents. That I no longer believed. Boy, that was hard.

So after that whole ordeal, I found myself wandering and searching. I found little to stimulate me spiritually. I looked into different faiths, ba'hai particularly and bahaullah (sorry if spelled wrong). But nothing was speaking to my spirit, really. Nothing was stimulating me like Jesus did.

Until I found Near Death Experiences. It was kind of a eureka moment! Go straight to the horse's mouth. These people clinically died man! They were revived and able to tell their experiences.

To me, this was IT! No need to listen to people who lived thousands of years ago. These people, went there FIRST HAND.

So unless I am wanting to write a book, I should leave it there. So sorry!

Joe Schmoe who died in the O.R. and floated around the hospital, before being sucked up in the tunnel to meet the light... WHY IS HIS EXPERIENCE SATANIC. He says, that God is love and light, and not to worry about a thing. WHY can't we listen, to him?

When I found NDE's I soaked them up like a sponge. They resonate with my highest self. The truths that my spirit knows but cannot express.

Please guys! Tell me your thoughts. This is what my life is all about. I am also a talented artist and musician. I believe that God is putting tremendous pressure on me, so that I proclaim the real good news. My heart is decwptively wicked my brother would say. I create god in my own image in order to justify living a sinful life.

But how is wanting every single person who ever lived, to be reconciled to God, wicked in any way? I asked him that and he quoted scripture to me.

Sorry loves! I'm on fire over here. Again if yoy've read all of this THANK you for your time ❤

Why are you obsessed? NDE is the same as BAE. In other words, Near Death is equivalent to Barely Alive.

Why people take “still barely alive” experiences seriously is what is mind boggling.

So, those experiences have no metaphysical significance, and are the result of our brains making up things under certain biochemical conditions.

Ciao

- viole

 

[anna.]

How do you know that is what they "saw"?

Because they were calling out their names and looking up and reaching for them.

At the other end of life, I was so interested watching
a baby who was by turns making faces of joy, confusion,
anger, fear, etc, which I suppose had nothing to do
with those actual emotions.

I've watched my own babies a million times, and it was usually the case that their faces are mirroring their actual emotions, all suppositions to the contrary aside.

 

[Audie]

Because they were calling out their names and looking up and reaching for them.

I've watched my own babies a million times, and it was usually the case that their faces are mirroring their actual emotions, all suppositions to the contrary aside.

I dont have a diagnostic comment on what
was going on re reaching for loved ones, tho
one time I was extremely sick, high fever, and
Mohammed Ali came in the room.

I was with that baby's mom when he was reviewing
those expressions, It lasted for maybe a minute, and
she said she did not see it before, or after.

 

[anna.]

I dont have a diagnostic comment on what
was going on re reaching for loved ones, tho
one time I was extremely sick, high fever, and
Mohammed Ali came in the room.

And I dreamed last night a nonsensical dream that had no basis in actuality, although I could intuit that parts of it were cobbled with memories of prior experience. It was an amazing dream, more so because of the brain activity that created it. So you see, I'm not on one side or the other, just observing and acknowledging both.

I was with that baby's mom when he was reviewing
those expressions, It lasted for maybe a minute, and
she said she did not see it before, or after.

With all due respect, that adds nothing to the conversation. Because a mom, for a minute, didn't see her child's emotion and you, not the mom, did - doesn't relate to the experience of the average mom who can read her baby's face like a book, and recognizes the authentic emotions on every page.

 

[Audie]

And I dreamed last night a nonsensical dream that had no basis in actuality, although I could intuit that parts of it were cobbled with memories of prior experience. It was an amazing dream, more so because of the brain activity that created it. So you see, I'm not on one side or the other, just observing and acknowledging both.



With all due respect, that adds nothing to the conversation. Because a mom, for a minute, didn't see her child's emotion and you, not the mom, did - doesn't relate to the experience of the average mom who can read her baby's face like a book, and recognizes the authentic emotions on every page.

I think it is a big mistake to take sides in an issue
for which there is so little evidence, and so prejudice
any chance of objectivity. So yeah, agree there!

As to babies- I think you misunderstood me. Of course
a mother is more or less magically connected to her baby.
I hope to experience that. Up to now my life has been too
unstable for it to be right to have a baby.

In the instance I was talking about, we, the mother and I,
were watching the baby making all those faces. IF the
child really was feeling all those things by turn, poor kid!
The expressions changed so quickly, and so randomly,
I dont think so. His mom was as surprised as I, and, as
I said, she never saw that before or after.

The child certainly seems "normal", no mental issues
at all other than that he is so incredibly smart, he is 6
years old, reading The Iliad (again) and taking a couple of
high school courses.

 

[Quintessence]

I guess I'm referring to the definition of satan I was taught. The great deceiver who appears as an angel of light, who rebelled against god, the personification of pure evil. I don't necessarily believe in this concept of evil anymore.

Hmm. What would the deception be with near death experiences, then? As I understand it, these experiences can be interpreted from within a Christian context in different ways, and there really isn't any "right" interpretation since there is no way to assess who has the truth of it (not objectively, anyway). One could believe that the experiences are part of the journey to the Christian heaven or to the Christian hell. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to contextualize and interpret their life experiences. That's part of what religion does - offer a framework for doing that. Even within that framework, there are not necessarily cut and dry answers. What do you want to believe? And how will that impact how you carry yourself?