Nature is an evil abusive parasite

[Clara Tea]

1. friends with a Cane Corso Italiano

2. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings.

3. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

4. Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

5. Nature has no rights, for no one.

6. a creature can't just die happily and peacefully (predator, parasites, outcast by tribe)

7. Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy
  
• Hierarchy
• Obedience
• Conformity
  
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love
  
• Questioning the system
  
• Introspection
  
• Authenticity
  
• Self-actualization

8. Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown.

9. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshiped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

10. meaningless reproduction cycle

11. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures.... What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

12. How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

1. "Italiano" (dog): Mustn't defy the dogfather.

2. "Nature doesn't love you:" People need a parent to love them, so there are God's all over the world that are supposed to stop volcanoes from destroying, and cure diseases. Real?

3. "Worship someone beautiful, more intelligent, and more powerful?" Hey, leave my lover out of this. Seriously, would someone worship Satan because of power and intelligence? Maybe goodness is also important. If so, should we continually say that God is good though he allows Satan to exist and allows cruelty and stink in the world?

4. "Fun" (like Sodom's gambling?). Puritans believe that idle hands are the tools of the devil, and dance and art are sinful. Should we play video games while the homeless starve? There's work to do, so maybe we shouldn't just think about fun.

5. "nature has no rights." It does for 1,000 pound bears. They can sit anywhere they want. (The situation is unbearable).

6. "Die in misery." Animals must be wary of attack, and ultimately are eaten or die. The alternative to depredation is overpopulation leading to starvation (a slower death). This is why it is so hard to believe that God is loving. Was God loving as his son was tortured to death? Are we not all God's children?

7. Of all the pros and cons, perhaps questioning is the strongest taboo. Is it okay to question if God is really loving, as Christians constantly tout? Preventing questions is the mark of a tyrant.

8. Living to learn lessons: Maybe that is why we were put on earth? You learn the value of money by getting an allowance and budgeting for what you want. Perhaps we learn the value of love by struggling with limited love from God on earth (doesn't answer prayers). Denny Crane (Boston Legal TV show, a far right Republican) said that President W. Bush was a genius for not lifting a finger during the Hurricane Katrina aftermath, while people were dying. Crane said that W. Bush, by doing nothing, taught us self-reliance. Could that account for the apathy of God and W. Bush? Do limited resources teach the necessity of sharing? Eskimos share....they have to in order to survive.

9. "obey instincts." Humans have instincts to breed, but we must not grab spouses against their will. Humans have an instinct to hunt, but we must not kill all those (animals and humans) around us. Humans have instincts to outperform others around us, but we must resist the urge to steal from them and harm them. Largely, we have to control our instincts and partially obey them. Men have instincts that they are not even aware of. They don't realize that they like breasts because large breasts could feed kids, they are attracted to them, but they don't know why and refuse to believe that they have the same instincts that they note in the animal world. Some women are attracted to brutal men, and they lead lives of battering, and watching their children getting abused. We have to allow our intellects to moderate our instincts, and we have to allow our instincts to moderate our intellects. If it wasn't for instincts, few would want to have poop machine babies keeping them up all night (not to mention pregnancy).

10. "meaningless procreation cycle" This is a problem pondered by the greatest minds in history. "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, creeps in its petty pace, til the last syllable of recorded time, and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to a dusty death." We are not immortal, but our DNA is serially immortal (until it evolves into a different species). That is, our DNA is passed down to our progeny.

11. Evil parasite feeding on misery....would never worship. I agree. We can't worship the power of Satan without realizing that we support evil and pain. Nor can we support God if we realize that he allows evil. This is why the myth has been asserted that God is pure goodness.

12. To fight against the evil in the world....be good. It is a small ripple in the pool, but that ripple will reach distant ears, and create still more ripples.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

I am not sure I understand. We are a part of nature. It is in us and we are in it. Human culture is overlaid on top of nature and not the other way around.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

You are anthropomorphizing nature and looking at it if it were a person. It appears to be a very slanted view.

Nature is neither good or evil. It just is.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hate

On the other hand, you have to admit that gravity is a drag.

Stop the oppression. We can't let gravity hold us down.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

I don't think our basic needs should be taken for granted. We should know how they are met. I assume you mean they should be free and available without effort.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

The sick and disabled provide food for others. If they were left in a population, they could cause others to become sick.

It seems like you would prefer some mythical Utopia. But wouldn't that mean we are the parasites then? Putting a drain on Utopia's resources without even knowing where our benefits come from or how they got there. Your way sounds very sterile to me.

 

[Erebus]

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

I'm forever going on about how nature isn't just about fluffy bunnies and bucolic meadows. It's also about death, blood and destruction. It's certainly true that I personally tend to focus on the darker side of nature. That's the side I'm naturally drawn to.

That said, the lighter side is still a part of nature. It can be peaceful as well as cruel, beautiful as well as hideous and joyous as well as destructive. There's a balance between the two.

As to why I worship nature, the answer is quite simple. I find it truly awe-inspiring. It represents something an order of magnitude greater than ourselves. While it can be difficult to see that when nature is giving you a kick in the backside, when I'm able to take a step back and contemplate the vastness and intricacy of the universe, it's hard not to floored by its majesty.

Ultimately, that's what worship is to me. While an individual human might treat me with far more kindness than the totality of nature ever would, they don't inspire that sense of awe in me. Worship is more than just an exchange of favours, it's an acknowledgement of something greater than yourself.

 

[oldbadger]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

I am a Deist.
That certainly makes Mother Nature my Goddess.

And Nature gave me the chance of life, the same as any sparrow or porpoise etc

There is no God devoted to your survival. Wait and see.

 

[Martin]

An interesting perspective in this film...

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

The experience is all that there is, in my opinion - so why not fight to keep it going? Why not do whatever it is you must do to survive? Correct that the struggle (from your perspective) won't have mattered to "nature" or "the universe" as such, but doesn't it matter to you? If it doesn't, then why not just give up?

You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

This is just bad anthropomorphizing of "nature," and assigning it a will and a personality that it simply doesn't have. The universe functions in the way that it functions. Life is capable of sustaining itself within this ongoing functionality under pretty strict conditions. Nothing can even be "for" or "against" us except those things that are capable of contemplating and grasping what these terms even mean.

Also, to claim that the universe should simply "provide" for you, and that you have some "right" to living freely and easily is an extremely entitled viewpoint to be holding. And in my experience, not a single one of us has earned such entitlement. Nor can such earning even be accomplished. I mean... just think about it for a second. Who are the authorities that could provide for you such an ongoing entitlement? THERE ARE NONE!

Yes, we're "on our own." Hence the reason we should all be a little more supportive of one another. Hence the reason we should be a lot less willing to physically harm one another. WE are the ones who understand the abstracts, and what it means to help or hinder. So why is it that we tend to choose "hinder?" Nature surely isn't making any choices in this way... and so we are much to blame for our own failure to adhere to the knowledge we understand.

 

[Bird123]

It's been said that nature - and gods more generally - are often like a mirror. What one sees is a reflection of how one has been conditioned to see the world. As someone who has studied life sciences extensively on top of being a Druid, I find the OP's perspective one-sided and confusing, if not incoherent.

There is a tendency for the sciences to be taught in a very compartmentalized fashion, so I'd wager that's some of it. The more holistic perspectives present in the sciences - especially life sciences - are poorly covered if at all, and you might not get it at the college level either unless you specifically study a lot of ecology. Plus, there's just this weird cultural bias in the West of viewing everything as some sort of competition in spite of interdependence and cooperation being at least as abundant (though often understudied by comparison).

For an example of what I'm talking about, see - The Social Life of Forests

"Since Darwin, biologists have emphasized the perspective of the individual. They have stressed the perpetual contest among discrete species, the struggle of each organism to survive and reproduce within a given population and, underlying it all, the single-minded ambitions of selfish genes. Now and then, however, some scientists have advocated, sometimes controversially, for a greater focus on cooperation over self-interest and on the emergent properties of living systems rather than their units.

...

Before Simard and other ecologists revealed the extent and significance of mycorrhizal networks, foresters typically regarded trees as solitary individuals that competed for space and resources and were otherwise indifferent to one another. Simard and her peers have demonstrated that this framework is far too simplistic. An old-growth forest is neither an assemblage of stoic organisms tolerating one another’s presence nor a merciless battle royale: It’s a vast, ancient and intricate society. There is conflict in a forest, but there is also negotiation, reciprocity and perhaps even selflessness. The trees, understory plants, fungi and microbes in a forest are so thoroughly connected, communicative and codependent that some scientists have described them as superorganisms."
​

It's a very long article - intended for New York Times Magazine - but well worth the read.

​

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. In your example, we see that so often much more knowledge lives beyond the surface.

We should all strive to expand our view rather than limit it. There is so much more knowledge out there waiting to be Discovered. One should not get in one's own way by placing limits based on feelings, beliefs or ego.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

I think you are missing the obvious.
The obvious being that "nature" isn't a sentient entity which acts with intention. It is by definition neutral.

So to call nature "evil" (or "good" for that matter), is a category error at best.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

Nature seems to be pro...

• Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
• Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
• Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
• Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
• Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)

Nature seems to be contra...

• Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
• Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
• Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
• Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
• Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)

Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:

• Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
• Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
• Knowing yourself
• Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
• Working on self-actualization

These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?

What about cities. Those are artificial constructs created by humans and a lot of humans live in those systems. Do they provide an environment of unconditional love, reject hierarchies, not require obedience, reject conformity, and free the masses?

 

[Darkion]

I hate


On the other hand, you have to admit that gravity is a drag.

Yeah, keep making fun of me because I'm emotional.

Unconditional is without condition. Seems that you are the one setting conditions here, not nature (I never heard nature complain)

Yes, I am setting conditions. To not be abused, to be loved, to get my basic needs met. Merely the conditions to preserve my dignity. I will not do anything and everything that an abuser wants.


It is perfectly fine to complain about something that is abusing, belittling, torturing and enslaving countless beings. The only reason you never heard nature complain is because it is a goddamn torture machine. Just because it does not know what it is doing, does not mean that its abuse is ok.

To win you have to lose.

I will never submit to anyone or anything. I'd rather be thrown into a lake of fire and burn for eternity than truly submit in my heart to anyone. For submission is nothing else than degrading yourself, thereby causing extreme pain and killing your spirit.

We are all part of nature as well.

Just because we are part of it does not mean that what it is doing to us is ok.

I tend to think that we've made this enterprise into something that's a little bit too much about us, and severing the cord or leash between us and nature doesn't lead to real self actualization. For one thing, western culture has engaged into being a starkly atomized thing, and we seem to hold that 'assertion of ownership' of things is the key to forging our path. On the contrary, it seems that we started out as collaborative pack animals.

Severing the cord between us and nature is exactly what leads to real self actualization, because thereby we free ourselves from its mind control and explore new possibilities, for example computers.


Just because we started out as collaborative pack animals does not mean that this way of living is the best for us. I'd rather be dead than in a pack, for a pack does nothing but take away my freedom, order me around and put me down. Thanks, I'd rather be by myself and selfish. I am happy that because humanity has made so much progress, I am not forced to live in a pack, but can live alone in an apartment, where no one tells me what to do and I can be myself.


That's only one example of nature's abuse. Forcing you to live in a pack, whether you like it or not.

@Darkion ,


While I do not agree with everything you said, Congratulations on describing MAyA so well!

What you have narrated is the trap of MAyA. -- mAyAjaal


Working to obtain food and shelter is a learning process. Keeping a negative attitude towards that is of no use. Are we entitled to everything?


See there is a subtle difference between Prakruti (Mother Nature) and MAyA (which you have described as effects).


Mother Nature is compassionate and wants you to thrive and flourish in Her world. While mAyA tried to trap you in various ways - in the form of bullies for instance, prakruti actually helped you learn!


Without knowing it you were learning, and crossed bridges and hills, and prakruti was helping you do it behind the scenes.


You have correctly found a way to come out of the trap, but Maya is very strong and weakens the resolve before we know it she has led us astray again.

Therefore, the prescribed way to protect oneself from this mAyA trap is to take shelter of the Divine Benevolent Supreme, God in whatever way one perceives the Supreme.

Working to obtain food and shelter is nothing but tiring, boring, taking away your time to do actually fun stuff, and humiliating. It's only lesson seems to be that you are worthless because you must work again and again to satisfy your needs, apparently this shall show you that you don't deserve to exist unless you work hard and serve the collective. Few things are more humiliating than this. I have not said that we are entitled to everything, but IMO we are entitled to have are basic needs met, simply because we have needs. We are entitled to be loved and cared for, simply because we have feelings.


What you describe as Prakruti sounds like Satan to me.


Nature is not compassionate. Please give me a single example of the compassion of nature (not creatures).

So you are saying my religion is evil?


So let us consider the following.

No nature = no humans

Humans were created and continuing to be supported nature and are a part of nature. Thus humans are a part of nature therefore of nature and according to your post humans are evil. Now I am just guessing but you are probably human and by your opinion you are then evil. Unconditional love developed because of nature, Being able to know yourself is an evolutionary product which created the human brain and how it works.


I suspect what you are calling nature is a selective aspect of the natural world that you do not like. I am sorry you were bullied and the violent actions done by some are not the way I want the world to be. I worship nature but believe in compassion, caring, and protecting all life in our natural world.


Yes the natural world has both creative and destructive forces at work but but we cannot forget we are the product of these forces. Things that are difficult to accept such as death are still important for new life. Thus instead of labeling nature as evil maybe you should instead post how we should support what we believe to be the more compassionate aspects of nature since we have a choice.

No nature = no humans. Thanks, I do not want to be a human. Fyi, I have never felt as part of nature or humanity. I am a demonkin, I believe that I am a demon that is currently incarnated as a human.


Everyone is capable of evil.


I do not believe that unconditional love developed because of nature. Please give me a single example of the unconditional love of nature (not creatures). If the ability to know yourself is an evolutionary product, why doesn't a large number of creatures have it? Why are most creatures distracted from knowing themselves because they have to do the same stuff over and over again to avoid pain and suffering? Probably because nature (or whoever is behind it) doesn't want them to know themselves.


I am not against death, but against the unnecessary pain preceding many deaths. If animals who are no longer needed would die peacefully, I would have no problem with it. But no, they die of horrible unnecessary pain (parasites, predators, hunger / thrist, being outcast by their own kin). Out of all things that developed through evolution, why did nothing develop to avoid all this completely unnecessary pain?


Thanks for your compassion though.

Life is about learning and growing, discovering the knowledge that spans every subject. Adversity breeds invention. So often it's the adversity that points the direction of our learning, growing, and discovering.


Kiddies seem to always hate going to school, however where would they really be if they learned or discovered nothing?


Don't you want your child wise, strong, able to stand on their own two feet capable of overcoming the challenges? This will never happen sitting around having it made.


You have allowed the challenges in your life to blind you to the beauty of the system that does exist. The best lives right in front of us. It's no time to stop walking forward now.


It doesn't matter what one can not do. It's what one can do that counts. I know a person badly crippled who is changing the world all around him. The bad never matters or counts to him.

You do not have to suffer in order to learn and grow. Satan has taught me lots of things without ever making me suffer in 10 years.


I don't care about the beauty of something if it is unloving, uncaring and cruel.


I will never say that the bad doesn't matter, because that would be saying that all the evil and suffering in this world is ok.

It's been said that nature - and gods more generally - are often like a mirror. What one sees is a reflection of how one has been conditioned to see the world. As someone who has studied life sciences extensively on top of being a Druid, I find the OP's perspective one-sided and confusing, if not incoherent.


There is a tendency for the sciences to be taught in a very compartmentalized fashion, so I'd wager that's some of it. The more holistic perspectives present in the sciences - especially life sciences - are poorly covered if at all, and you might not get it at the college level either unless you specifically study a lot of ecology. Plus, there's just this weird cultural bias in the West of viewing everything as some sort of competition in spite of interdependence and cooperation being at least as abundant (though often understudied by comparison).


For an example of what I'm talking about, see - The Social Life of Forests


"Since Darwin, biologists have emphasized the perspective of the individual. They have stressed the perpetual contest among discrete species, the struggle of each organism to survive and reproduce within a given population and, underlying it all, the single-minded ambitions of selfish genes. Now and then, however, some scientists have advocated, sometimes controversially, for a greater focus on cooperation over self-interest and on the emergent properties of living systems rather than their units.


...


Before Simard and other ecologists revealed the extent and significance of mycorrhizal networks, foresters typically regarded trees as solitary individuals that competed for space and resources and were otherwise indifferent to one another. Simard and her peers have demonstrated that this framework is far too simplistic. An old-growth forest is neither an assemblage of stoic organisms tolerating one another’s presence nor a merciless battle royale: It’s a vast, ancient and intricate society. There is conflict in a forest, but there is also negotiation, reciprocity and perhaps even selflessness. The trees, understory plants, fungi and microbes in a forest are so thoroughly connected, communicative and codependent that some scientists have described them as superorganisms."


It's a very long article - intended for New York Times Magazine - but well worth the read.

You don't understand.


I do not want to be part of a "superorganism" or any interdependent system. All these systems do is...

• Force me to comply with their demands, or else they will leave me in the lurch, outcast me or at worst kill me.
• Suppress me from being true to myself and thinking for myself.
• In short, trap and enslave me.

But I also don't want to compete against everyone else.


How about a system like that: You leave me alone and I leave you alone. If one of us needs help from the other, we may give it to them on certain terms and conditions (for example no backstabbing). After the task is complete, we depart from each other and go our own ways again. I think that would be a good system.

 

[Darkion]

Human culture is overlaid on top of nature and not the other way around.

Just because human culture is overlaid on top of nature and not the other way around does not mean that the cruelty and indifference of nature is ok.

You are anthropomorphizing nature and looking at it if it were a person. It appears to be a very slanted view.


Nature is neither good or evil. It just is.

I don't care if nature is a person or not, and "It just is" IMO is just wrong. Nature is evil because by its system countless creatures suffer unnecessary pain for millions of years. If this is not evil, what is?

I don't think our basic needs should be taken for granted. We should know how they are met. I assume you mean they should be free and available without effort.

Well yes, they should be free and available without effort, you deserve to have your basic needs met simply because you exist and have those needs. You deserve to exist simply because you do exist. You should not have to work hard and do things you would rather not do just to continue existing.

The sick and disabled provide food for others. If they were left in a population, they could cause others to become sick.


It seems like you would prefer some mythical Utopia. But wouldn't that mean we are the parasites then? Putting a drain on Utopia's resources without even knowing where our benefits come from or how they got there. Your way sounds very sterile to me.

So you are pro killing the sick? Would you want to have a heightened chance of being outcast and left to die or killed straight away just because you were born?


Why would we be parasites if we just take that what we need to survive (which is not even that much) and then some more so we can enjoy ourselves and be creative?

As to why I worship nature, the answer is quite simple. I find it truly awe-inspiring. It represents something an order of magnitude greater than ourselves. While it can be difficult to see that when nature is giving you a kick in the backside, when I'm able to take a step back and contemplate the vastness and intricacy of the universe, it's hard not to floored by its majesty.


Ultimately, that's what worship is to me. While an individual human might treat me with far more kindness than the totality of nature ever would, they don't inspire that sense of awe in me. Worship is more than just an exchange of favours, it's an acknowledgement of something greater than yourself.

Thanks for your interesting perspective.


I acknowledge that nature is greater than myself, but this is only for tactical purposes and because I care about truth. The best way to beat a system is correctly knowing yourself, the system, and the relation of you vs. the system. The more accurate, the better.


I won't worship something or someone that doesn't love me or care about me, no matter how great it is, but it seems we understand worship differently.

And Nature gave me the chance of life, the same as any sparrow or porpoise etc


There is no God devoted to your survival. Wait and see.

Ok... what's so great about that if life is mostly suffering and hardships?


Without Satan I may have committed suicide. Maybe he is not devoted to my survival, but he sure is devoted to love and protect me.

The experience is all that there is, in my opinion - so why not fight to keep it going? Why not do whatever it is you must do to survive? Correct that the struggle (from your perspective) won't have mattered to "nature" or "the universe" as such, but doesn't it matter to you? If it doesn't, then why not just give up?


Also, to claim that the universe should simply "provide" for you, and that you have some "right" to living freely and easily is an extremely entitled viewpoint to be holding. And in my experience, not a single one of us has earned such entitlement. Nor can such earning even be accomplished. I mean... just think about it for a second. Who are the authorities that could provide for you such an ongoing entitlement? THERE ARE NONE!

Why should I live a life in which I do nothing else than the same boring and degrading tasks everyday just to do them another day, and with every day doing this I am reminded of how I am supposedly unworthy of existing without doing hard work that gives me no joy? This is not a life, it is beneath me and there would only be 3 reasons for me to keep going:

1. I don't want my family to grieve.
2. I fear the pain (there aren't many methods to die without it).
3. Satan wants me to continue.

Seriously, why would anyone want to live such a "life" that is nothing but doing boring things and being humiliated by having to do them? IMO the experience alone is not worth it, also because in this case it would be very negative for me. I am very happy that I do not have to live such a life, and I know this is thanks to cities, computers and the likes.


I don't see how my opinion of being entitled to having basic needs fulfilled just because of existence is extremely entitled. Do you view yourself as only deserving existence if you work hard and do little to nothing fun?

What about cities. Those are artificial constructs created by humans and a lot of humans live in those systems. Do they provide an environment of unconditional love, reject hierarchies, not require obedience, reject conformity, and free the masses?

To answer your question, no they don't. But I believe that's because of what nature has ingrained into humans.

 

[Koldo]

Nature is what it is, we, humanity are the ones labelling it.

Sure, but doesn't that apply to everything, including rape and murder, for example?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why should I live a life in which I do nothing else than the same boring and degrading tasks everyday just to do them another day, and with every day doing this I am reminded of how I am supposedly unworthy of existing without doing hard work that gives me no joy?

If you desire that the experience continue, then you do what you must to survive. Why is this seen as so "mundane" or "boring" or "degrading" to you? Perhaps that is your, personal issue. These things are not seen that way by a great number of people. You can think you are "correct" about something like this all you want... but no one else must necessarily see it the way you do. It is entirely your opinion, and nothing more. Therefore it objectively natters even less than the snot my nose produces.

This is not a life, it is beneath me

Once one strips away their own personal preferences and view point, one comes to realize that there is no such thing as a thing being "beneath" oneself. Such a thing is all a matter of perspective. My opinion is (and yes, it is worth no more than the snot being produced by your nose, but I am going to tell you nonetheless, just like you felt the need to express your views here) is that your perspective is a very crappy one.

Seriously, why would anyone want to live such a "life" that is nothing but doing boring things and being humiliated by having to do them?

If you, personally, are "humiliated" by the act of procuring survival, then that is entirely your own problem.

IMO the experience alone is not worth it

Yes, "in your opinion." Always make sure that is clear, because it isn't objectively as you describe. All a matter of perspective.

I don't see how my opinion of being entitled to having basic needs fulfilled just because of existence is extremely entitled.

Because you OBVIOUSLY just expect everything you need to be handed to you. Again - WHO are the authorities you feel should be doing the procurement and handing out of all of these resources? You still haven't addressed that, and I think it is because you have to admit that there are none... and it likely scares you.

Do you view yourself as only deserving existence if you work hard and do little to nothing fun?

I don't view myself as "deserving" of ANYTHING. There is no such thing as objectively "deserving" something. Do you understand what I mean when I say that?

To sum up, I view your perspective on life and existence to be extremely pessimistic, and basically broken. Sad for you. I don't experience the same ongoing disappointment and (apparent) feelings of rejection by the universe nor do I point fingers at the abstract of "the universe" and lament its failure to cater to me. This all honestly sounds like something a baby might do before it has any experience with life.

 

[Quintessence]

You don't understand.

I do not want to be part of a "superorganism" or any interdependent system. All these systems do is...

• Force me to comply with their demands, or else they will leave me in the lurch, outcast me or at worst kill me.
• Suppress me from being true to myself and thinking for myself.
• In short, trap and enslave me.

But I also don't want to compete against everyone else.

How about a system like that: You leave me alone and I leave you alone. If one of us needs help from the other, we may give it to them on certain terms and conditions (for example no backstabbing). After the task is complete, we depart from each other and go our own ways again. I think that would be a good system.

I don't know what to say, really. In the world you want, you and I could not even be having this conversation. That you seem so fearful of the mandatory interdependency that underpins reality is... you seem very troubled. I hope you find peace.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Severing the cord between us and nature is exactly what leads to real self actualization, because thereby we free ourselves from its mind control and explore new possibilities, for example computers.

The problem is, that the cord isn't actually severed, we are still taking stuff out of a finite biosphere. The individual still is part of a society, and so he is part of a pack. You're free to think what you like , but I think the future means developing a game b system

 

[Bird123]

Yeah, keep making fun of me because I'm emotional.





Yes, I am setting conditions. To not be abused, to be loved, to get my basic needs met. Merely the conditions to preserve my dignity. I will not do anything and everything that an abuser wants.


It is perfectly fine to complain about something that is abusing, belittling, torturing and enslaving countless beings. The only reason you never heard nature complain is because it is a goddamn torture machine. Just because it does not know what it is doing, does not mean that its abuse is ok.





I will never submit to anyone or anything. I'd rather be thrown into a lake of fire and burn for eternity than truly submit in my heart to anyone. For submission is nothing else than degrading yourself, thereby causing extreme pain and killing your spirit.





Just because we are part of it does not mean that what it is doing to us is ok.





Severing the cord between us and nature is exactly what leads to real self actualization, because thereby we free ourselves from its mind control and explore new possibilities, for example computers.


Just because we started out as collaborative pack animals does not mean that this way of living is the best for us. I'd rather be dead than in a pack, for a pack does nothing but take away my freedom, order me around and put me down. Thanks, I'd rather be by myself and selfish. I am happy that because humanity has made so much progress, I am not forced to live in a pack, but can live alone in an apartment, where no one tells me what to do and I can be myself.


That's only one example of nature's abuse. Forcing you to live in a pack, whether you like it or not.





Working to obtain food and shelter is nothing but tiring, boring, taking away your time to do actually fun stuff, and humiliating. It's only lesson seems to be that you are worthless because you must work again and again to satisfy your needs, apparently this shall show you that you don't deserve to exist unless you work hard and serve the collective. Few things are more humiliating than this. I have not said that we are entitled to everything, but IMO we are entitled to have are basic needs met, simply because we have needs. We are entitled to be loved and cared for, simply because we have feelings.


What you describe as Prakruti sounds like Satan to me.


Nature is not compassionate. Please give me a single example of the compassion of nature (not creatures).





No nature = no humans. Thanks, I do not want to be a human. Fyi, I have never felt as part of nature or humanity. I am a demonkin, I believe that I am a demon that is currently incarnated as a human.


Everyone is capable of evil.


I do not believe that unconditional love developed because of nature. Please give me a single example of the unconditional love of nature (not creatures). If the ability to know yourself is an evolutionary product, why doesn't a large number of creatures have it? Why are most creatures distracted from knowing themselves because they have to do the same stuff over and over again to avoid pain and suffering? Probably because nature (or whoever is behind it) doesn't want them to know themselves.


I am not against death, but against the unnecessary pain preceding many deaths. If animals who are no longer needed would die peacefully, I would have no problem with it. But no, they die of horrible unnecessary pain (parasites, predators, hunger / thrist, being outcast by their own kin). Out of all things that developed through evolution, why did nothing develop to avoid all this completely unnecessary pain?


Thanks for your compassion though.





You do not have to suffer in order to learn and grow. Satan has taught me lots of things without ever making me suffer in 10 years.


I don't care about the beauty of something if it is unloving, uncaring and cruel.


I will never say that the bad doesn't matter, because that would be saying that all the evil and suffering in this world is ok.





You don't understand.


I do not want to be part of a "superorganism" or any interdependent system. All these systems do is...

• Force me to comply with their demands, or else they will leave me in the lurch, outcast me or at worst kill me.
• Suppress me from being true to myself and thinking for myself.
• In short, trap and enslave me.

But I also don't want to compete against everyone else.


How about a system like that: You leave me alone and I leave you alone. If one of us needs help from the other, we may give it to them on certain terms and conditions (for example no backstabbing). After the task is complete, we depart from each other and go our own ways again. I think that would be a good system.

Satan does not exist. The idea of Satan is no more than a creation of mankind.

As for the rest, there is so much you do not Understand. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lifetimes your road will clear.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!