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Featured Nature is an evil abusive parasite

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Darkion, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Darkion

    Darkion New Member

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    Disclaimer: I love animals (friends with a Cane Corso Italiano) and plants, but I hate the system they are all trapped in.

    I don't understand why people worship nature. I think they mostly do it because they have romanticized nature. Many people live in big cities, so they miss nature, they can get their basic needs met and don't have to worry about predators, very sick and disabled people are locked away in hospitals, so they don't see the cruelty of nature.

    Yes, nature is beautiful. Yes, there is intelligence behind it (or at least seems to be). Yes, nature is more powerful than us, and (IMO sadly) we are a part of it. But nature does not care about you. Nature has no compassion, it is indifferent to your needs and feelings. Nature does not love you. Would you worship someone who is very beautiful, more intelligent and more powerful than you, but does not care about you? I wouldn't.

    But nature gets even worse than just being indifferent. It treats all of its creatures, who all have needs and maybe have feelings, like tools. It uses their needs and feelings as tools to get what it wants, with no regard for the wellbeing of the creatures. How does it do this? Well for example by blackmail. Either you search for food or you die slowly and painfully. Nature controls creatures by instilling fear and pain in them if they do not benefit it. This is abusive.

    Now many people would say that nature gives us the food as gifts. I would not even call the fruits on the trees, the corn, or the meat of the animals "gifts". Why not? Because they are not just given to you. No, creatures have to search for their food, which can be dangerous and exhausting for them. Also, I will not worship someone for giving me food, because getting your basic needs met should be taken for granted.

    And if we shouldn't search for food, build shelters, etc., what would there be left to do? Lots of things that are actually fun! Creating artwork, writing, cooking delicious stuff, programming, dancing, playing video games, doing jigsaw puzzles, taking part in sports competitions... most of that we can only do because with science and technology, we have overpowered nature for at least a short time.

    Nature has no rights, for no one. You have no right to life in nature, because creatures have to fight hard every day just so they can continue to live. Therefore nature is against (human) rights.

    But it gets even worse. Because what does nature do to creatures that are not useful to it, because they are very sick or disabled? It torments and kills them. Either parasites kill them, or the creature's own parents / "friends" cast them out of a group or immediately kill them. Because a creature can't just die happily and peacefully if it is no longer useful. No, it must suffer a tormenting death (being caught by a predator), a slow and painful death (by parasites), or severe emotional pain followed by a slow and painful death (being outcast and dying because the creature cannot survive alone). This makes me really angry because I am disabled (Asperger's), I was bullied and I'm pretty sure that had I not been born in a "civilized" society, bullies or even the whole tribe would have outcast or brutally killed me simply because I'm too sensitive to be useful for the group.

    Nature seems to be pro...
    • Psychopathy (Use others to get what you want, regardless of how it affects them. This also seems to be nature's true nature)
    • Hierarchy, submission (to the group and your surroundings)
    • Obedience (Search for food, build your shelter, OR ELSE...)
    • Conformity (The more you adapt, meaning you are / do what the group wants, the more you get goodies)
    • Underdevelopment of the self (It wants to keep you enslaved of course)
    Nature seems to be contra...
    • Unconditional love (IMO only unconditional love is love)
    • Questioning the system (Why does apparently no one ask "Why should it be so important to reproduce your species?")
    • Introspection (Nature programmed the brain so that it categorizes mental pain in the same way as it categorizes physical pain, this hinders introspection. It is also hindered because creatures are so busy with surviving that many of them would not even have time for this.)
    • Authenticity (The more you are not / do not do what the group wants, the more you are hurt, abused and even killed. From this we can also see that nature is against love.)
    • Self-actualization (You are trapped in the lower parts of the Maslow pyramid of needs, so getting to the top of the pyramid is either extremely hard or impossible)
    Maybe nature exists so creatures learn the greatest lies out there: "If I am not useful, I am worthless and don't deserve love" and "Pleasing others is more important than my needs and feelings". It also seems to mind-control creatures, because I can assure you, if nature were a human government, humans would be outraged at its cruelty, indifference and evil and would rebel against it until it was overthrown. But because it is nature, it is idealized and worshipped, you must obey the instincts it put inside you and normally don't even get the idea of questioning them.

    Nature (or the intelligent being behind it) is pure evil, a psychopathic parasite that uses, abuses, torments, enslaves and mind-controls its creatures. And for what? For the continuation of a meaningless reproduction cycle, in which the creatures are trapped of course. Maybe an evil spirit has created nature so that it can feed on the suffering of its creatures, and that's why it has also installed mechanisms to keep the creatures trapped in a cycle that is only meaningful for itself. What a parasite! I will never worship such a thing / being.

    How can you fight against nature (or the evil entity behind it)? Not by polluting the environment, that's only hurting us and countless other creatures on the planet. You can fight against it by doing what it seems to be against. That would mean:
    • Loving yourself unconditionally and spreading unconditional love
    • Thinking for yourself, questioning stuff
    • Knowing yourself
    • Being yourself, regardless if others approve or not
    • Working on self-actualization
    These are only my thoughts and opinions of course. What are yours?
     
    #1 Darkion, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  2. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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  3. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I think that is looking at
    the world through a very personal
    emotional and withal very sad filter.
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I hate
    On the other hand, you have to admit that gravity is a drag.
     
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  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Unconditional is without condition. Seems that you are the one setting conditions here, not nature (I never heard nature complain)
     
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  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Nature is like a chess opponent that loves stale mate and endless check and recheck conditions. To win you have to lose. That is what we have been doing until now -- losing to win, but Humans have begun to dominate nature. Here and now is the defining moment when we find out if we win or if Nature does...or alternatively if we want to keep playing. Some people want to keep the game going.
     
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  7. Meerkat

    Meerkat Well-Known Member

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    From nature's point of view, humanity is probably an evil abusive parasite, a virus, a disease... :p
     
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  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    We are all part of nature as well.
     
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  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Nature is what it is, we, humanity are the ones labelling it.
     
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  10. Meerkat

    Meerkat Well-Known Member

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    Indeed.
     
  11. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I will reply to some of this , though I haven't quite decided on my approach. I think my thinking resides in an adjacent quadrant. I tend to think that we've made this enterprise into something that's a little bit too much about us, and severing the cord or leash between us and nature doesn't lead to real self actualization. For one thing, western culture has engaged into being a starkly atomized thing, and we seem to hold that 'assertion of ownership' of things is the key to forging our path. On the contrary, it seems that we started out as collaborative pack animals. Man was originally the 'caring' piece of the puzzle, not the selfish one. To the prehistoric animistic society for example, the eating of an animal could often be a solemn ritual, and you recognized that you borrowed something from its spirit force. To bypass that for the efficiency of factory farming for example, seems to take us a few degrees away from nature, and toward a kind of re-humaned nature, which has the greater ability to become selfish, than that of an animal's nature could be, in my view. All this is plenty controversial of course. Perhaps you might want to explore a few of my threads where I talk about things in this vein
     
    #11 ideogenous_mover, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  12. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA vAsudeva sarvaM iti
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    @Darkion ,

    While I do not agree with everything you said, Congratulations on describing MAyA so well!
    What you have narrated is the trap of MAyA. -- mAyAjaal

    Working to obtain food and shelter is a learning process. Keeping a negative attitude towards that is of no use. Are we entitled to everything?

    See there is a subtle difference between Prakruti (Mother Nature) and MAyA (which you have described as effects).

    Mother Nature is compassionate and wants you to thrive and flourish in Her world. While mAyA tried to trap you in various ways - in the form of bullies for instance, prakruti actually helped you learn!

    Without knowing it you were learning, and crossed bridges and hills, and prakruti was helping you do it behind the scenes.

    You have correctly found a way to come out of the trap, but Maya is very strong and weakens the resolve before we know it she has led us astray again.
    Therefore, the prescribed way to protect oneself from this mAyA trap is to take shelter of the Divine Benevolent Supreme, God in whatever way one perceives the Supreme.
     
    #12 ameyAtmA, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  13. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
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    So you are saying my religion is evil?

    So let us consider the following.
    No nature = no humans
    Humans were created and continuing to be supported nature and are a part of nature. Thus humans are a part of nature therefore of nature and according to your post humans are evil. Now I am just guessing but you are probably human and by your opinion you are then evil. Unconditional love developed because of nature, Being able to know yourself is an evolutionary product which created the human brain and how it works.

    I suspect what you are calling nature is a selective aspect of the natural world that you do not like. I am sorry you were bullied and the violent actions done by some are not the way I want the world to be. I worship nature but believe in compassion, caring, and protecting all life in our natural world.

    Yes the natural world has both creative and destructive forces at work but but we cannot forget we are the product of these forces. Things that are difficult to accept such as death are still important for new life. Thus instead of labeling nature as evil maybe you should instead post how we should support what we believe to be the more compassionate aspects of nature since we have a choice.
     
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  14. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA vAsudeva sarvaM iti
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    Living beings are under the influence of mAyA.
    What happens when one takes shelter of the Divine ?
    Thoughts, attitude, approach and perspective changes completely.
    Definitions, desires, dependencies change and many things in the stormy mind become N/A.
    Outlook change: Almost topsy-turvey
     
    #14 ameyAtmA, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  15. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Before post anything substantive, @Darkion - are you genuinely interested in why our ancestors deified various aspects of nature and worshiped them as gods? And why some still practice this sort of polytheism/pantheism/animism today? Or did you mostly just want to rant rather than learn?

    If you're genuinely interested in learning something about another culture, I can certainly go through the many assumptions made in the opening post. And there are a lot of questionable assumptions in the opening post. It would take a lot of time for me to cover all them, and that's time I don't want to spend responding to someone who has basically attacked everything I am and my entire way of life. I hope that's understandable to you.
     
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  16. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    We all have the power to choose what we deem important. One can choose to see doom and gloom in everything or one can choose to see the goodness in everything.

    Seems you focus on the doom and gloom. You focus on the hurt, pain, and trials without considering the results.

    When times are good, we just sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, one must think, study, analyze, plan, experiment, learning and growing in so many ways on the road toward resolution.

    Some think it's all about survival of the fittest, however it's much more than that. Learning and growing reaches a point where the picture changes. Today, it's not only the fittest who survives. This would never happen if not for the learning and growing ,overcoming all those challenges making us all better.

    I'm sure Asperger's is not an easy thing. What lessons will mankind learn about the brain, brain chemistry along with all the problems dealing with that and people's reactions toward it? Without someone having it, mankind's knowledge in such areas would be void.

    Life is about learning and growing, discovering the knowledge that spans every subject. Adversity breeds invention. So often it's the adversity that points the direction of our learning, growing, and discovering.

    Kiddies seem to always hate going to school, however where would they really be if they learned or discovered nothing?

    Don't you want your child wise, strong, able to stand on their own two feet capable of overcoming the challenges? This will never happen sitting around having it made.

    You have allowed the challenges in your life to blind you to the beauty of the system that does exist. The best lives right in front of us. It's no time to stop walking forward now.

    It doesn't matter what one can not do. It's what one can do that counts. I know a person badly crippled who is changing the world all around him. The bad never matters or counts to him.

    WE all are Special is so many ways just as we are. We all have the ability to change the world for the better in so many ways. Widen the view. Take aim. March forward, leaving the can'ts, the doom and gloom behind for they just wander from the true path.

    That's what I see. It's very clear!!
     
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  17. Aštra’el

    Aštra’el 7213A9O

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    F4BDE551-730B-453F-A4E4-C50FD3DCAA93.jpeg 35A030F2-5D4E-4271-B331-7042110FE432.jpeg 5C99B40A-806B-4BC6-8BB9-B1D1B4E4C560.jpeg EEBB1FEF-9E5B-4CB9-B9BF-0330D88E59D3.jpeg 1DBBFD3E-5D7A-4A41-8B9E-FFAB9937BE23.jpeg I love nature.
     
    #17 Aštra’el, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  18. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    This is a wonderful picture and a good reminder. And indeed, nature is great and one huge miracle
     
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  19. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    It's been said that nature - and gods more generally - are often like a mirror. What one sees is a reflection of how one has been conditioned to see the world. As someone who has studied life sciences extensively on top of being a Druid, I find the OP's perspective one-sided and confusing, if not incoherent.

    There is a tendency for the sciences to be taught in a very compartmentalized fashion, so I'd wager that's some of it. The more holistic perspectives present in the sciences - especially life sciences - are poorly covered if at all, and you might not get it at the college level either unless you specifically study a lot of ecology. Plus, there's just this weird cultural bias in the West of viewing everything as some sort of competition in spite of interdependence and cooperation being at least as abundant (though often understudied by comparison).

    For an example of what I'm talking about, see - The Social Life of Forests


    "Since Darwin, biologists have emphasized the perspective of the individual. They have stressed the perpetual contest among discrete species, the struggle of each organism to survive and reproduce within a given population and, underlying it all, the single-minded ambitions of selfish genes. Now and then, however, some scientists have advocated, sometimes controversially, for a greater focus on cooperation over self-interest and on the emergent properties of living systems rather than their units.

    ...

    Before Simard and other ecologists revealed the extent and significance of mycorrhizal networks, foresters typically regarded trees as solitary individuals that competed for space and resources and were otherwise indifferent to one another. Simard and her peers have demonstrated that this framework is far too simplistic. An old-growth forest is neither an assemblage of stoic organisms tolerating one another’s presence nor a merciless battle royale: It’s a vast, ancient and intricate society. There is conflict in a forest, but there is also negotiation, reciprocity and perhaps even selflessness. The trees, understory plants, fungi and microbes in a forest are so thoroughly connected, communicative and codependent that some scientists have described them as superorganisms."
    It's a very long article - intended for New York Times Magazine - but well worth the read.

     
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  20. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    My religion still venerates and deifies nature. But it doesn’t pretend that nature is inherently good. Nature is cruel and harsh. That’s sort of the point. To only venerate the good is to apply morality to it and take the easy path. One should also acknowledge the cruelty. A sort of “warts and all” approach, I suppose
     
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