Natural selection vs intelligence

[2nd mouse]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

I can see how NS would effect a simple life form in that it has no other way to deal with the environmental pressures put on it so it is subject to the environment. In a sense it is forced on them because there is no alternative. On the other hand, a being like a human that is quite intellegent and also has a progressive intellegence it seems to me that his intelligence would over power NS or at least rend it useless as he would himself institute all neccessary changes. Like building shelter instead evolving a tougher exterior. Or creating tools to make living in that environment easier or more productive instead of evolving biological changes.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

 

[RomCat]

If there is such a thing as Natural Selection why don't
us humans have eyes in the back of our heads?
After all would that not be of great assistance in helping
to protect ourselves from an adversary?

 

[darkendless]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

It doesn't to my knowledge. It might, but what do we have to logically support such an assumption? Squat

 

[meogi]

I can see how NS would effect a simple life form in that it has no other way to deal with the environmental pressures put on it so it is subject to the environment.

What do you consider a simple (less intelligent?) life form?

In a sense it is forced on them because there is no alternative.

Natural selection isn't a force. It's a consequence of reproductive survival in changing environments. I guess if you want to consider NS a force, it would be predation.

On the other hand, a being like a human that is quite intellegent and also has a progressive intellegence it seems to me that his intelligence would over power NS or at least rend it useless as he would himself institute all neccessary changes.

Intelligence, in essence, really isn't that different from natural selection. Intelligence simply has the benefit of repeated trial and error, without much consequence because of it.

Like building shelter instead evolving a tougher exterior.

Hermit crabs?

Or creating tools to make living in that environment easier or more productive instead of evolving biological changes.

The fact is, if we didn't have intelligence, we wouldn't be living in that environment. To speculate if a biological change would have occurred to enable us to live there is moot.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

It allows us to efficiently survive... I'd think intelligence was a result of natural selection. The ability to solve problems on your own is very useful.

If there is such a thing as Natural Selection why don't
us humans have eyes in the back of our heads?
After all would that not be of great assistance in helping
to protect ourselves from an adversary?

It obviously wasn't necessary.

 

[Tiapan]

Intelligence allows us to control many of the environmental pressures that would normally be drivers for natural selection. The weather is getting hotter, animals suffer die of thirst, humans have air conditioners and build reservoirs for water storage thus reducing the pressure. However, this does not mean all environmental pressures are addressed by intelligence. We are still evolving. One current subtle but real pressure in particular is our ability to be part of a continually changing society. Social pressures demand certain behaviors, if you dont fit in you are killed or incarcerated withdrawing you from the breeding pool thus this form of natural selection is very active. The trend is to be a cog in the wheels of industry, rather than a radical individualist.

Cheers

 

[painted wolf]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

Our growing intelligence was the result of natural selection.
Natural selection is still working on us... mostly in disease resistances and other subtle changes.

There is a lot of research going on in the field of human genetics tracing these selective pressures.

wa:do

 

[sonofskeptish]

If there is such a thing as Natural Selection why don't
us humans have eyes in the back of our heads?
After all would that not be of great assistance in helping
to protect ourselves from an adversary?

To humans, looking forward has stronger survival benefits than looking backwards, but that's not something a "blind" believer would "see".

 

[ragordon168]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

I can see how NS would effect a simple life form in that it has no other way to deal with the environmental pressures put on it so it is subject to the environment. In a sense it is forced on them because there is no alternative. On the other hand, a being like a human that is quite intellegent and also has a progressive intellegence it seems to me that his intelligence would over power NS or at least rend it useless as he would himself institute all neccessary changes. Like building shelter instead evolving a tougher exterior. Or creating tools to make living in that environment easier or more productive instead of evolving biological changes.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

i would say it does. by all rights humanity should not have survived (from a biological stance) we have no real defences (fists and teeth dont realy cut it for an animal our size) and an ice age would have killed us due to the cold.

only our intellegence helped us survive so id say it can override NS.

 

[fantome profane]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

I can see how NS would effect a simple life form in that it has no other way to deal with the environmental pressures put on it so it is subject to the environment. In a sense it is forced on them because there is no alternative. On the other hand, a being like a human that is quite intellegent and also has a progressive intellegence it seems to me that his intelligence would over power NS or at least rend it useless as he would himself institute all neccessary changes. Like building shelter instead evolving a tougher exterior. Or creating tools to make living in that environment easier or more productive instead of evolving biological changes.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

I think you are right on the money with this one. We tend to adapt culturally rather than biologically/genetically. There are other species that also adapt culturally (other primates), but not even close to the extent that humans do.

And I would also like to add to this topic by making a distinction between cultural adaptation and behavioural adaptation. Many different species have adapted by evolving specific and complex behaviours. We see this throughout the animal kingdom, but usually these behaviours are part of their genetic structure and have come about through a process of natural selection. This is not the case with humans (or usually not the case).

Philosopher Michael Ruse has an idea he calls the “Darwinian calculator”. What he has argued is that it is as if there is part of our brain that calculates what kind of behaviour we might evolve if we were to undergo natural selection for hundreds of generations. And then having made that calculation we bypass the actually process of natural selection and go right to the behaviour. And then of course we pass this behaviour on culturally, not genetically. This allows us to react much more quickly, and much more flexibly.

 

[2nd mouse]

Our growing intelligence was the result of natural selection.
Natural selection is still working on us... mostly in disease resistances and other subtle changes.

There is a lot of research going on in the field of human genetics tracing these selective pressures.

wa:do

But that would imply that our intelligence is a result of evolution wouldn't it? If it was, then where are the incremental lesser intelligences that brought us here? I would think if it was a result of the process of evolution that there would be some life form that would at least be close to ours in regards to intellegence. For example if we put a current intelligence value of 10 on humans, where are the 9's or 8's...or even the 5's?

There seems to be a huge chasm between human intellegence and the next closer example. Why has intellegence only progressed in humans?

 

[2nd mouse]

Intelligence, in essence, really isn't that different from natural selection. Intelligence simply has the benefit of repeated trial and error, without much consequence because of it.

See now I think quite the opposite. The repeated trial and error is the process of NS. Intelligence creates the opportunity to minimize the process of trial and error.

 

[fantome profane]

But that would imply that our intelligence is a result of evolution wouldn't it? If it was, then where are the incremental lesser intelligences that brought us here? I would think if it was a result of the process of evolution that there would be some life form that would at least be close to ours in regards to intellegence. For example if we put a current intelligence value of 10 on humans, where are the 9's or 8's...or even the 5's?

There seems to be a huge chasm between human intellegence and the next closer example. Why has intellegence only progressed in humans?

Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo heidelbergensis
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis

 

[2nd mouse]

Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo heidelbergensis
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis

Hi fantome.
I was expecting this reply from someone. So my next question would be while the intelligence of those in your list vary only a little if you use homo sapiens as your upper end of the spectrum, human beings appear to be light years advanced in comparison. I'm not so much refering to our abundance of knowledge but rather our innate ability to conceptualize and reason.

 

[fantome profane]

Hi fantome.
I was expecting this reply from someone. So my next question would be while the intelligence of those in your list vary only a little if you use homo sapiens as your upper end of the spectrum, human beings appear to be light years advanced in comparison. I'm not so much refering to our abundance of knowledge but rather our innate ability to conceptualize and reason.

We are not. Homo erectus brain was not that much smaller than ours and Neanderthals actually had a larger brain than humans on average. We can actually see a gradual increase in the size of the brain pan. It is not hard to see how natural selection could have acted on the brains of these hominids.

And don’t completely discount the intelligence of other living species such as chimpanzees and dolphins etc. They are probably not as smart as a Neanderthal was, but not stupid either.

Your assessment that we are “light years advanced in comparison” is completely subjective and arbitrary. I don’t share this assessment.

 

[Sunstone]

Intelligence is sexually selected for. Everyone knows nerds get all the girls.

 

[Autodidact]

I was wondering how intellegence effects natural selection.

I can see how NS would effect a simple life form in that it has no other way to deal with the environmental pressures put on it so it is subject to the environment. In a sense it is forced on them because there is no alternative. On the other hand, a being like a human that is quite intellegent and also has a progressive intellegence it seems to me that his intelligence would over power NS or at least rend it useless as he would himself institute all neccessary changes. Like building shelter instead evolving a tougher exterior. Or creating tools to make living in that environment easier or more productive instead of evolving biological changes.

I guess my question would be what effect does intelligence have the process of evolution? And how does it effect NS?

How do you think some organisms developed intelligence?

 

[Autodidact]

If there is such a thing as Natural Selection why don't
us humans have eyes in the back of our heads?
After all would that not be of great assistance in helping
to protect ourselves from an adversary?

How on earth could something like that evolve?

 

[Autodidact]

If there is such a thing as Natural Selection why don't
us humans have eyes in the back of our heads?
After all would that not be of great assistance in helping
to protect ourselves from an adversary?

RomCat: Let us know if you ever decide to learn what evolution is, so you can make an actual contribution to the conversation.

 

[Autodidact]

But that would imply that our intelligence is a result of evolution wouldn't it? If it was, then where are the incremental lesser intelligences that brought us here? I would think if it was a result of the process of evolution that there would be some life form that would at least be close to ours in regards to intellegence. For example if we put a current intelligence value of 10 on humans, where are the 9's or 8's...or even the 5's?

There seems to be a huge chasm between human intellegence and the next closer example. Why has intellegence only progressed in humans?

In our hominid ancestors and in our ape cousins, the chimpanzees and bonobos.

 

[Autodidact]

Hi fantome.
I was expecting this reply from someone. So my next question would be while the intelligence of those in your list vary only a little if you use homo sapiens as your upper end of the spectrum, human beings appear to be light years advanced in comparison. I'm not so much refering to our abundance of knowledge but rather our innate ability to conceptualize and reason.

No, as well as we can tell, that is not what the evidence indicates. In fact for example neanderthalis appears as advanced as our Homo sapiens ancestors, as far as we can tell.