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Natural Law, how do you understand it?

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
There is much confusion from theistic apologists from all faiths as to what natural law is and how it’s applied to humanity. I want to get other faiths to contribute their understanding of it and who is bound/effected by natural law. To start, I will note the Catholic perspective on it.

Natural Law is:

  • One part of the eternal law. Example of other parts: Law of Moses (1 Cor. 9:9, Heb. 10:28), Law of Christ (1 Cor. 9:21, Gal. 6:2).
  • The term is used to refer to those moral precepts of the eternal law that a rational creature (theist and non-theist) can discern without special revelation. For example, the fact that murder, theft, and lying are wrong can be discerned by human reason without special revelation and so the prohibitions against them constitute part of the natural law.
  • Catholic Catechism: No. 1954: ..The natural law expresses the original moral sense which enables man to discern by reason the good and the evil, the truth and the lie…
This is why from our perspective you see some common ground across many moral issues from different faiths and non-faiths. We are all wired the same. But you can also un-wire yourself through conditioning.



Let me know your thoughts.



~Victor
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
NetDoc said:
I am not sure that I need to define "natural law" in order to believe what I do.
Then don't do it as a form of "need", but a form of discussion. Just discuss your understanding of it.:)
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
I can't say to some that it really is more of an understanding than it is a deep feeling coming from within put in ones heart by the Holy Spirit. It's not all on a conscious level to know right from wrong...if you get an inkling inside you that something is wrong for you then it feels that way for some reason don't you think? For me it doesn't come down to church beliefs it comes down to what I feel was born in me through possibly a gift of God. I always seemed to be sensitive to consequences and through seeing when I went against what my heart was telling me I always saw why I should have listened to my gut(the Holy Spirit talking to me)...when I learned how important it was to listen to that small voice inside me I realized it was confirmed through my faith later in my life.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
fromthe heart said:
I can't say to some that it really is more of an understanding than it is a deep feeling coming from within put in ones heart by the Holy Spirit. It's not all on a conscious level to know right from wrong...if you get an inkling inside you that something is wrong for you then it feels that way for some reason don't you think? For me it doesn't come down to church beliefs it comes down to what I feel was born in me through possibly a gift of God. I always seemed to be sensitive to consequences and through seeing when I went against what my heart was telling me I always saw why I should have listened to my gut(the Holy Spirit talking to me)...when I learned how important it was to listen to that small voice inside me I realized it was confirmed through my faith later in my life.
Fromthe heart, good post. Couple comments.
--Natural Law does not come from Church teaching. If it did then you would not see many people in concesus about a certain wrong. The Church does define and identify them though.
--Although I agree with you, about feelings I do hope you have heard horror stories of people stoping to take their medication because the "Holy Spirit" would cure them. And they died. If you are fueled with feelings that's not a bad thing as long as you can manage them and remember that God is creator of both this world and the next.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
It seems to be a human trait to make lists.

In this case lists of what is Good and what is Bad.
Every one and every religion does it.
They ascribe it to different laws and teachers.
What is interesting is that most lists are in essence the same.
There is either a built in understanding of right or wrong
or God instills one into each of us.

Terry_________________________--
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Victor said:
Fromthe heart, good post. Couple comments.
--Natural Law does not come from Church teaching. If it did then you would not see many people in concesus about a certain wrong. The Church does define and identify them though.
--Although I agree with you, about feelings I do hope you have heard horror stories of people stoping to take their medication because the "Holy Spirit" would cure them. And they died. If you are fueled with feelings that's not a bad thing as long as you can manage them and remember that God is creator of both this world and the next.
Fom:- http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/n/natlaw.htm#H1

I found this interesting, but confusing - maybe it's just me.
1. Two Kinds of Natural Law Theory





At the outset, it is important to distinguish two kinds of theory that go by the name of natural law. The first is a theory of morality that is roughly characterized by the following theses. First, moral propositions have what is sometimes called objective standing in the sense that such propositions are the bearers of objective truth-value; that is, moral propositions can be objectively true or false. Though moral objectivism is sometimes equated with moral realism (see, e.g., Moore 1992, 190: "the truth of any moral proposition lies in its correspondence with a mind- and convention-independent moral reality"), the relationship between the two theories is controversial. Geoffrey Sayre-McCord (1988), for example, views moral objectivism as one species of moral realism, but not the only form; on Sayre-McCord's view, moral subjectivism and moral intersubjectivism are also forms of moral realism. Strictly speaking, then, natural law moral theory is committed only to the objectivity of moral norms.

The second thesis constituting the core of natural law moral theory is the claim that standards of morality are in some sense derived from, or entailed by, the nature of the world and the nature of human beings. St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, identifies the rational nature of human beings as that which defines moral law: "the rule and measure of human acts is the reason, which is the first principle of human acts" (Aquinas, ST I-II, Q.90, A.I). On this common view, since human beings are by nature rational beings, it is morally appropriate that they should behave in a way that conforms to their rational nature. Thus, Aquinas derives the moral law from the nature of human beings (thus, "natural law").

But there is another kind of natural law theory having to do with the relationship of morality to law. According to natural law theory of law, there is no clean division between the notion of law and the notion of morality. Though there are different versions of natural law theory, all subscribe to the thesis that there are at least some laws that depend for their "authority" not on some pre-existing human convention, but on the logical relationship in which they stand to moral standards. Otherwise put, some norms are authoritative in virtue of their moral content, even when there is no convention that makes moral merit a criterion of legal validity. The idea that the concepts of law and morality intersect in some way is called the Overlap Thesis.

As an empirical matter, many natural law moral theorists are also natural law legal theorists, but the two theories, strictly speaking, are logically independent. One can deny natural law theory of law but hold a natural law theory of morality. John Austin, the most influential of the early legal positivists, for example, denied the Overlap Thesis but held something that resembles a natural law ethical theory.

Indeed, Austin explicitly endorsed the view that it is not necessarily true that the legal validity of a norm depends on whether its content conforms to morality. But while Austin thus denied the Overlap Thesis, he accepted an objectivist moral theory; indeed, Austin inherited his utilitarianism almost wholesale from J.S. Mill and Jeremy Bentham. Here it is worth noting that utilitarians sometimes seem to suggest that they derive their utilitarianism from certain facts about human nature; as Bentham once wrote, "nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do. On the one hand the standard of right and wrong, on the other the chain of causes and effects, are fastened to their throne" (Bentham 1948, 1). Thus, a commitment to natural law theory of morality is consistent with the denial of natural law theory of law. Conversely, one could, though this would be unusual, accept a natural law theory of law without holding a natural law theory of morality. One could, for example, hold that the conceptual point of law is, in part, to reproduce the demands of morality, but also hold a form of ethical subjectivism (or relativism). On this peculiar view, the conceptual point of law would be to enforce those standards that are morally valid in virtue of cultural consensus. For this reason, natural law theory of law is logically independent of natural law theory of morality. The remainder of this essay will be exclusively concerned with natural law theories of law.
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
Fromthe heart, good post. Couple comments.
--Natural Law does not come from Church teaching. If it did then you would not see many people in concesus about a certain wrong. The Church does define and identify them though.
--Although I agree with you, about feelings I do hope you have heard horror stories of people stoping to take their medication because the "Holy Spirit" would cure them. And they died. If you are fueled with feelings that's not a bad thing as long as you can manage them and remember that God is creator of both this world and the next.
very good point...but a lot of these cases are done out of being prompted to by some other source other than just the Holy Spirit...I guess with anything it's a personal thing.:)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I don't see anything that is "natural" as all of it comes from God. Whether it is the law of gravity or the law that makes you happy when you serve, it ALL comes from God. The tiny and the large, the simple and the complex: all come from God.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NetDoc said:
I don't see anything that is "natural" as all of it comes from God. Whether it is the law of gravity or the law that makes you happy when you serve, it ALL comes from God. The tiny and the large, the simple and the complex: all come from God.
Whether it is the law of gravity or the law that makes you happy when you serve, it ALL comes from God.
Agreed, but why can't that be called 'natural' ? Nature is part of God, surely.;)
 
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