NATO's History and Actions in Africa: A Marxist Take

[Debater Slayer]

I questioned, not assumed.

Noted.

 

[Nakosis]

An article on the Monthly Review, a socialist/Marxist magazine, detailing an African perspective on some of the long-standing abusive practices carried out or enabled by NATO, up to and including in the present:



Further excerpts:





NATO and Africa: A relationship of colonial violence and structural White supremacy | MR Online

I'm not posting this expecting anything in particular, be it agreement or disagreement; I'm mainly sharing it to give a perspective that is popular among many in Africa and the Arab world, including many who are not Marxists. I understand that there are various viewpoints on the subject, which makes sense to me considering the complexity thereof.

I should also note that when it comes to Russia's current conflict with NATO, I'm fully on the side of the latter because I believe their position is far more justified than Russia's aggressive and imperialist war. This article is about NATO's actions from a much broader historical and political lens than just the conflict with Russia.

NATO is not a benovent organization. It is a alliance of western Europe and the US for its own benefits.

Also I think it misses the point by calling it "White supremacy". It is cultural supremacy. It promote western European culture. Western Europeans just happen to be mostly White.

Perhaps NATO likes to promote itself otherwise but it acts to promote western European culture.

 

[Nakosis]

The type of Marxism I personally believe in is dialectical materialism. I also believe in separation of religion and state law (i.e., the state should be neither for nor against religious belief), private ownership under proper regulation, and a multi-party government rather than a one-party state as in China.

Just a question, not a criticism.

What is Marxist about this.
I could replace "Marxism" with liberalism and say the same.

IOW, what do you see as the difference between liberalism and Marxism?

 

[Left Coast]

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) for example is continuously plundered for its strategic raw materials such as cobalt, tantalum, chromium, coltan, and uranium etc.

Are those things plundered, or sold?

 

[Left Coast]

The type of Marxism I personally believe in is dialectical materialism. I also believe in separation of religion and state law (i.e., the state should be neither for nor against religious belief), private ownership under proper regulation, and a multi-party government rather than a one-party state as in China.

Ah, you haven't been fully converted. There's still time.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Is it plundered, or sold?

Practically plundered considering that many of the mines employ child and slave labor:

Parliamentary question | Child slave labour in Congo ‘horror mines’ | E-002251/2022 | European Parliament

Child labour, toxic leaks: the price we could pay for a greener future

 

[Left Coast]

Practically plundered considering that many of the mines employ child and slave labor:

Parliamentary question | Child slave labour in Congo ‘horror mines’ | E-002251/2022 | European Parliament

Child labour, toxic leaks: the price we could pay for a greener future

Is that child labor forced by NATO, or the DRC?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Just a question, not a criticism.

What is Marxist about this.
I could replace "Marxism" with liberalism and say the same.

IOW, what do you see as the difference between liberalism and Marxism?

There are multiple differences between liberalism and how I view issues such as freedom of speech, immigration, private versus public ownership of certain services or utilities, and democracy. The main aspect of my worldview that makes me identify as a Marxist is dialectical materialism, however, as outlined here:

dialectical materialism, a philosophical approach to reality derived from the writings of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. For Marx and Engels, materialism meant that the material world, perceptible to the senses, has objective reality independent of mind or spirit. They did not deny the reality of mental or spiritual processes but affirmed that ideas could arise, therefore, only as products and reflections of material conditions.

Marx and Engels understood materialism as the opposite of idealism, by which they meant any theory that treats matter as dependent on mind or spirit, or mind or spirit as capable of existing independently of matter. For them, the materialist and idealist views were irreconcilably opposed throughout the historical development of philosophy. They adopted a thoroughgoing materialist approach, holding that any attempt to combine or reconcile materialism with idealism must result in confusion and inconsistency.

Dialectical materialism | Definition & Facts

 

[Debater Slayer]

Is that child labor forced by NATO, or the DRC?

Right now, China forces a lot of it. I haven't looked more deeply into the extent of NATO's influence in that regard or on the DRC's government.

 

[Left Coast]

Right now, China forces a lot of it. I haven't looked more deeply into the extent of NATO's influence in that regard or on the DRC's government.

If anything, from the links you've provided and other things I've read here and there, Western countries are trying not to purchase minerals mined from countries that use such practices if there are other ways we can do it.

A little supplemental reading to explain the complexities here: https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/se...bour-concerns-deny-the-drc-its-cobalt-riches/

To boil all that down to "The DRC is being pLuNdErED by the eViL CaPitAListS!" is just silly.

The article in the OP seems to be a lot of misdirected anger.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If anything, from the links you've provided and other things I've read here and there, Western countries are trying not to purchase minerals mined from countries that use such practices if there are other ways we can do it.

The article in the OP seems to be a lot of misdirected anger.

There are currently a lot of challenges facing more ethical sourcing of minerals used in manufacturing batteries due to the significant reliance of the EV industry and a few other industries (e.g., smartphones) on them. That said, I don't know enough about the efforts to shift away from that to comment on their effectiveness or the extent of the commitment to them from various industries.

I don't agree with everything in the article, but I also think it makes some reasonable and important points that a lot of other sources rarely touch on.

 

[Left Coast]

There are currently a lot of challenges facing more ethical sourcing of minerals used in manufacturing batteries due to the significant reliance of the EV industry and a few other industries (e.g., smartphones) on them. That said, I don't know enough about the efforts to shift away from that to comment on their effectiveness or the extent of the commitment to them from various industries.

I don't agree with everything in the article, but I also think it makes some reasonable and important points that a lot of other sources rarely touch on.

Sorry, I made a late edit to my last post. You may find the link informative.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sorry, I made a late edit to my last post. You may find the link informative.

If anything, from the links you've provided and other things I've read here and there, Western countries are trying not to purchase minerals mined from countries that use such practices if there are other ways we can do it.

A little supplemental reading to explain the complexities here: Will child labour concerns deny the DRC its cobalt riches?

To boil all that down to "The DRC is being pLuNdErED by the eViL CaPitAListS!" is just silly.

The article in the OP seems to be a lot of misdirected anger.

Thanks for the link!

It's good that there's increasing pressure on mining companies to clean up the working conditions in the mines. I remember reading this last year and finding it quite questionable on Tesla's part to sign a deal with these companies despite China's record of exploitation in the DRC:

Tesla orders cobalt from two Chinese suppliers - electrive.com

At least one of the two has reportedly taken measures to make its supply chain less abusive, though, so the international pressure has clearly had some effect.

As for the article in the OP, as I said, I think it makes some reasonable points and some less reasonable ones. There are legitimate concerns about the effects of capitalism in major industrial powers on less powerful but resource-rich countries. On the other hand, the efforts to opt for better sourcing of minerals aren't mentioned there, nor is the fact that this has largely come from pressure by organizations that include many in the West.