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NATO Says Missile That Hit Poland Was Likely Ukraine Air Defense

We Never Know

No Slack
The finding are out. I didn't think Putin would be that stupid.

"BRUSSELS—Top NATO officials said there was no evidence that a missile that crashed in Poland, killing two people, was fired there intentionally, adding that it was likely a Russian-made weapon fired by a Ukrainian air-defense system.

“Ukraine defended itself, which is obvious and understandable, by firing missiles whose task was to knock down Russian missiles,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said Wednesday. “The Russian side is to blame for this tragic event.”

Russia unleashed one of the biggest barrages of the war on Tuesday, firing 96 missiles at Ukrainian cities after being forced to withdraw from the southern city of Kherson last week in a major blow for Moscow. A missile landed in a Polish village near the Ukrainian border, killing two farmworkers and raising fears of a wider conflagration.

“This is not Ukraine’s fault,” said North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg. “Russia bears ultimate responsibility.”

“This is a direct result of the ongoing war,” he added. “Of course Ukraine has the right to shoot down missiles targeting Ukrainian cities and infrastructure.”

NATO ambassadors held an emergency meeting in Brussels to discuss the missile incident and to coordinate the alliance’s next moves. The incident also dominated a meeting of European Union ambassadors, who unanimously agreed “that Russia bears direct responsibility for yesterday’s tragedy, for the death of two Polish citizens,” said Poland’s ambassador to the EU, Andrzej Sadoś.

The Polish deaths appear to be the first fatalities on the terrain of a NATO country to be directly linked to hostilities following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

While initial analyses of missile fragments and radar coverage of the area point to the projectile having been launched from Ukraine, NATO officials will have in mind that the country on Tuesday was defending itself against a barrage of missiles launched by Russia. The fusillade was among the biggest Russia has fired since its large-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February.

Polish officials said late Tuesday they were considering asking NATO countries to begin special high-level consultations. Those consultations, known as Article IV in reference to NATO’s founding treaty, are a step short of invoking the alliance’s mutual-defense pact, known as Article V.

However, at the NATO ambassadors’ meeting on Wednesday, Poland chose not to ask for Article IV consultations at this stage, a Polish NATO official said.

Establishing that the deadly explosion was in direct response to Russian aggression would reinforce contentions from NATO—and particularly members once under Soviet domination, including Poland and the three Baltic states—that Russia is ultimately to blame for all of the impact of the war.

NATO’s meeting Wednesday was convened hours before a planned virtual gathering of its members and roughly 20 other countries that are supporting Ukraine with lethal and nonlethal aid. The countries, known collectively as the Contact Group, are likely to face renewed pressure to increase military support to Kyiv, especially in the area of air defense.

Members have recently made helping Ukraine fend off Russia’s airborne attacks a priority, but systems are complex to set up and integrate, and no single type can target threats ranging from big, fast military jets to tiny, slow-moving drones.

Mr. Stoltenberg said that NATO was constantly vigilant against potential Russian attacks and that “a Ukrainian air-defense missile doesn’t have the characteristics of a deliberate attack” by Russia. He declined to provide details of where the missile exploded, whether a Russian missile was in the area or whether the Ukrainian missile intercepted a Russian projectile.

President Biden said Tuesday that preliminary information about the missile strike indicates that it was unlikely to have been fired from Russia and pledged to investigate the incident.

Senior Ukrainian officials had said Tuesday that it was a Russian missile that crossed into Poland.

Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council said in a tweet on Wednesday that Kyiv was ready to participate in a joint investigation into the incident and requested immediate access to the site.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Wednesday that there was “another hysterical and frenzied Russophobic reaction” in the West following reports of the incident in Poland, “which was not based on any real data,” he said.

He said the government in Warsaw could have been more restrained and professional when addressing issues that could escalate a situation. He noted what he described as the “restrained and much more professional reaction of the American side and the American president.”

Poland, Ukraine’s most vocal advocate and chief military benefactor on the European continent, readied its air-defense systems in response to the incident, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said. It also ramped up a diplomatic effort to bring more support to Ukraine.

Ukrainian officials on Wednesday called for NATO to close the airspace over Ukraine, a move that allies have previously ruled out to avoid being drawn directly into the war.

Poland summoned Russia’s ambassador around midnight Tuesday for a four-minute meeting that occurred “without any exchange of courtesies,” or handshakes, a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman said. The government wasn’t ruling out expelling the ambassador, but also had made no imminent decision to do so, said Deputy Foreign Minister Paweł Jabłoński.

“He was there, we demanded an explanation on what Russia is doing, because Russia is conducting an aggressive war and Russia’s criminal attacks on public infrastructure is something that we don’t accept,” Mr. Jabłoński said. Poland is set to convene a security meeting at noon and formulate a response later in the afternoon, he said.

Factories located in both Russia and Ukraine have historically produced the type of missiles loaded into Ukrainian air-defense systems. “At the moment we do not have any unequivocal evidence as to who fired the rocket, investigations are under way,” Mr. Duda said.

NATO members will want to learn if Russian missiles were in the region, if Ukraine launched air-defense missiles in response, and whether any Russian missiles or fragments landed in Poland.

Speaking at a summit of the Group of 20 major economies in Indonesia Wednesday morning, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to fire dozens of missiles on Ukrainian civilian targets while the G-20 was meeting in efforts to resolve some of the problems caused by the war “showed utter contempt for the international rules-based system.”

NATO Says Missile That Hit Poland Was Likely Ukraine Air Defense
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The finding are out.

"BRUSSELS—Top NATO officials said there was no evidence that a missile that crashed in Poland, killing two people, was fired there intentionally, adding that it was likely a Russian-made weapon fired by a Ukrainian air-defense system.

“Ukraine defended itself, which is obvious and understandable, by firing missiles whose task was to knock down Russian missiles,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said Wednesday. “The Russian side is to blame for this tragic event.”

Russia unleashed one of the biggest barrages of the war on Tuesday, firing 96 missiles at Ukrainian cities after being forced to withdraw from the southern city of Kherson last week in a major blow for Moscow. A missile landed in a Polish village near the Ukrainian border, killing two farmworkers and raising fears of a wider conflagration.

“This is not Ukraine’s fault,” said North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg. “Russia bears ultimate responsibility.”

“This is a direct result of the ongoing war,” he added. “Of course Ukraine has the right to shoot down missiles targeting Ukrainian cities and infrastructure.”

NATO ambassadors held an emergency meeting in Brussels to discuss the missile incident and to coordinate the alliance’s next moves. The incident also dominated a meeting of European Union ambassadors, who unanimously agreed “that Russia bears direct responsibility for yesterday’s tragedy, for the death of two Polish citizens,” said Poland’s ambassador to the EU, Andrzej Sadoś.

The Polish deaths appear to be the first fatalities on the terrain of a NATO country to be directly linked to hostilities following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

While initial analyses of missile fragments and radar coverage of the area point to the projectile having been launched from Ukraine, NATO officials will have in mind that the country on Tuesday was defending itself against a barrage of missiles launched by Russia. The fusillade was among the biggest Russia has fired since its large-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February.

Polish officials said late Tuesday they were considering asking NATO countries to begin special high-level consultations. Those consultations, known as Article IV in reference to NATO’s founding treaty, are a step short of invoking the alliance’s mutual-defense pact, known as Article V.

However, at the NATO ambassadors’ meeting on Wednesday, Poland chose not to ask for Article IV consultations at this stage, a Polish NATO official said.

Establishing that the deadly explosion was in direct response to Russian aggression would reinforce contentions from NATO—and particularly members once under Soviet domination, including Poland and the three Baltic states—that Russia is ultimately to blame for all of the impact of the war.

NATO’s meeting Wednesday was convened hours before a planned virtual gathering of its members and roughly 20 other countries that are supporting Ukraine with lethal and nonlethal aid. The countries, known collectively as the Contact Group, are likely to face renewed pressure to increase military support to Kyiv, especially in the area of air defense.

Members have recently made helping Ukraine fend off Russia’s airborne attacks a priority, but systems are complex to set up and integrate, and no single type can target threats ranging from big, fast military jets to tiny, slow-moving drones.

Mr. Stoltenberg said that NATO was constantly vigilant against potential Russian attacks and that “a Ukrainian air-defense missile doesn’t have the characteristics of a deliberate attack” by Russia. He declined to provide details of where the missile exploded, whether a Russian missile was in the area or whether the Ukrainian missile intercepted a Russian projectile.

President Biden said Tuesday that preliminary information about the missile strike indicates that it was unlikely to have been fired from Russia and pledged to investigate the incident.

Senior Ukrainian officials had said Tuesday that it was a Russian missile that crossed into Poland.

Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council said in a tweet on Wednesday that Kyiv was ready to participate in a joint investigation into the incident and requested immediate access to the site.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Wednesday that there was “another hysterical and frenzied Russophobic reaction” in the West following reports of the incident in Poland, “which was not based on any real data,” he said.

He said the government in Warsaw could have been more restrained and professional when addressing issues that could escalate a situation. He noted what he described as the “restrained and much more professional reaction of the American side and the American president.”

Poland, Ukraine’s most vocal advocate and chief military benefactor on the European continent, readied its air-defense systems in response to the incident, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said. It also ramped up a diplomatic effort to bring more support to Ukraine.

Ukrainian officials on Wednesday called for NATO to close the airspace over Ukraine, a move that allies have previously ruled out to avoid being drawn directly into the war.

Poland summoned Russia’s ambassador around midnight Tuesday for a four-minute meeting that occurred “without any exchange of courtesies,” or handshakes, a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman said. The government wasn’t ruling out expelling the ambassador, but also had made no imminent decision to do so, said Deputy Foreign Minister Paweł Jabłoński.

“He was there, we demanded an explanation on what Russia is doing, because Russia is conducting an aggressive war and Russia’s criminal attacks on public infrastructure is something that we don’t accept,” Mr. Jabłoński said. Poland is set to convene a security meeting at noon and formulate a response later in the afternoon, he said.

Factories located in both Russia and Ukraine have historically produced the type of missiles loaded into Ukrainian air-defense systems. “At the moment we do not have any unequivocal evidence as to who fired the rocket, investigations are under way,” Mr. Duda said.

NATO members will want to learn if Russian missiles were in the region, if Ukraine launched air-defense missiles in response, and whether any Russian missiles or fragments landed in Poland.

Speaking at a summit of the Group of 20 major economies in Indonesia Wednesday morning, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to fire dozens of missiles on Ukrainian civilian targets while the G-20 was meeting in efforts to resolve some of the problems caused by the war “showed utter contempt for the international rules-based system.”

NATO Says Missile That Hit Poland Was Likely Ukraine Air Defense
Confused with identifying ordinance?

Ever fantasize you wanted to spy on those meetings and see/hear what's not being reported?

But it is what it is. Just have to take their word on it.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Biden and NATO providing shade for their buddy Putin!!
Russian collusion!
Investigate for possible impeachment!
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think that people have the IQ to figure out that such a small missile cannot travel through thousands of miles.
So...I guess it was not from Moscow. But from a very close spot.

S-300 Missile has 120 km range - can't be Russia.jpeg
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I think that people have the IQ to figure out that such a small missile cannot travel through thousands of miles.
So...I guess it was not from Moscow. But from a very close spot.

View attachment 68566

Not only that.
Putin is crazy but I don't thnk he would intentionally send a missle into another country which would escalate a war he is already losing.
By possibly involving more countries would be a death sentence to himself and Russia.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
The finding are out. I didn't think Putin would be that stupid.

"BRUSSELS—Top NATO officials said there was no evidence that a missile that crashed in Poland, killing two people, was fired there intentionally, adding that it was likely a Russian-made weapon fired by a Ukrainian air-defense system.

“Ukraine defended itself, which is obvious and understandable, by firing missiles whose task was to knock down Russian missiles,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said Wednesday. “The Russian side is to blame for this tragic event.”

Russia unleashed one of the biggest barrages of the war on Tuesday, firing 96 missiles at Ukrainian cities after being forced to withdraw from the southern city of Kherson last week in a major blow for Moscow. A missile landed in a Polish village near the Ukrainian border, killing two farmworkers and raising fears of a wider conflagration.

“This is not Ukraine’s fault,” said North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg. “Russia bears ultimate responsibility.”

“This is a direct result of the ongoing war,” he added. “Of course Ukraine has the right to shoot down missiles targeting Ukrainian cities and infrastructure.”

NATO ambassadors held an emergency meeting in Brussels to discuss the missile incident and to coordinate the alliance’s next moves. The incident also dominated a meeting of European Union ambassadors, who unanimously agreed “that Russia bears direct responsibility for yesterday’s tragedy, for the death of two Polish citizens,” said Poland’s ambassador to the EU, Andrzej Sadoś.

The Polish deaths appear to be the first fatalities on the terrain of a NATO country to be directly linked to hostilities following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

While initial analyses of missile fragments and radar coverage of the area point to the projectile having been launched from Ukraine, NATO officials will have in mind that the country on Tuesday was defending itself against a barrage of missiles launched by Russia. The fusillade was among the biggest Russia has fired since its large-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February.

Polish officials said late Tuesday they were considering asking NATO countries to begin special high-level consultations. Those consultations, known as Article IV in reference to NATO’s founding treaty, are a step short of invoking the alliance’s mutual-defense pact, known as Article V.

However, at the NATO ambassadors’ meeting on Wednesday, Poland chose not to ask for Article IV consultations at this stage, a Polish NATO official said.

Establishing that the deadly explosion was in direct response to Russian aggression would reinforce contentions from NATO—and particularly members once under Soviet domination, including Poland and the three Baltic states—that Russia is ultimately to blame for all of the impact of the war.

NATO’s meeting Wednesday was convened hours before a planned virtual gathering of its members and roughly 20 other countries that are supporting Ukraine with lethal and nonlethal aid. The countries, known collectively as the Contact Group, are likely to face renewed pressure to increase military support to Kyiv, especially in the area of air defense.

Members have recently made helping Ukraine fend off Russia’s airborne attacks a priority, but systems are complex to set up and integrate, and no single type can target threats ranging from big, fast military jets to tiny, slow-moving drones.

Mr. Stoltenberg said that NATO was constantly vigilant against potential Russian attacks and that “a Ukrainian air-defense missile doesn’t have the characteristics of a deliberate attack” by Russia. He declined to provide details of where the missile exploded, whether a Russian missile was in the area or whether the Ukrainian missile intercepted a Russian projectile.

President Biden said Tuesday that preliminary information about the missile strike indicates that it was unlikely to have been fired from Russia and pledged to investigate the incident.

Senior Ukrainian officials had said Tuesday that it was a Russian missile that crossed into Poland.

Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council said in a tweet on Wednesday that Kyiv was ready to participate in a joint investigation into the incident and requested immediate access to the site.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Wednesday that there was “another hysterical and frenzied Russophobic reaction” in the West following reports of the incident in Poland, “which was not based on any real data,” he said.

He said the government in Warsaw could have been more restrained and professional when addressing issues that could escalate a situation. He noted what he described as the “restrained and much more professional reaction of the American side and the American president.”

Poland, Ukraine’s most vocal advocate and chief military benefactor on the European continent, readied its air-defense systems in response to the incident, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said. It also ramped up a diplomatic effort to bring more support to Ukraine.

Ukrainian officials on Wednesday called for NATO to close the airspace over Ukraine, a move that allies have previously ruled out to avoid being drawn directly into the war.

Poland summoned Russia’s ambassador around midnight Tuesday for a four-minute meeting that occurred “without any exchange of courtesies,” or handshakes, a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman said. The government wasn’t ruling out expelling the ambassador, but also had made no imminent decision to do so, said Deputy Foreign Minister Paweł Jabłoński.

“He was there, we demanded an explanation on what Russia is doing, because Russia is conducting an aggressive war and Russia’s criminal attacks on public infrastructure is something that we don’t accept,” Mr. Jabłoński said. Poland is set to convene a security meeting at noon and formulate a response later in the afternoon, he said.

Factories located in both Russia and Ukraine have historically produced the type of missiles loaded into Ukrainian air-defense systems. “At the moment we do not have any unequivocal evidence as to who fired the rocket, investigations are under way,” Mr. Duda said.

NATO members will want to learn if Russian missiles were in the region, if Ukraine launched air-defense missiles in response, and whether any Russian missiles or fragments landed in Poland.

Speaking at a summit of the Group of 20 major economies in Indonesia Wednesday morning, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to fire dozens of missiles on Ukrainian civilian targets while the G-20 was meeting in efforts to resolve some of the problems caused by the war “showed utter contempt for the international rules-based system.”

NATO Says Missile That Hit Poland Was Likely Ukraine Air Defense
Maybe this was a politically correct statement by Nato. It is dangerous for Nato to go to war with Russia. It may lead to nuclear war. So, they avoid it as much as possible.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Not only that.
Putin is crazy but I don't thnk he would intentionally send a missle into another country which would escalate a war he is already losing.
By possibly involving more countries would be a death sentence to himself and Russia.
If a war starts between Nato and Russia, Nato is much stronger than Russia as long as Russia does not use Nuclear weapons. But if they do use them, then Russia has very strong nuclear missiles that can destroy the whole America overnight.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
If a war starts between Nato and Russia, Nato is much stronger than Russia as long as Russia does not use Nuclear weapons. But if they do use them, then Russia has very strong nuclear missiles that can destroy the whole America overnight.

A nuclear war would be bad for everyone.

Which Countries Have Nuclear Weapons?
  1. Russia — 6,257 (1,458 active, 3039 available, 1,760 retired)
  2. United States — 5,550 (1,389 active, 2,361 available, 1,800 retired)
  3. China — 350 available (actively expanding nuclear arsenal)
  4. France — 290 available
  5. United Kingdom — 225 available
  6. Pakistan — 165 available
  7. India — 156 available
  8. Israel — 90 available
  9. North Korea — 40-50 available
Nuclear Weapons by Country 2022
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
I think that people have the IQ to figure out that such a small missile cannot travel through thousands of miles.
So...I guess it was not from Moscow. But from a very close spot.

View attachment 68566
a more extensive article concerning the missile type and its variations...

Factbox: What is the S-300 missile that is reported to have hit Poland?

From the article:
Factbox: What is the S-300 missile that is reported to have hit Poland?
Reuters

Nov 16 (Reuters) - Poland has said the missile that hit a grain facility on Tuesday, killing two people near the border with Ukraine, was probably an "old" S-300 rocket, a Soviet-era missile system being used by both Russia and Ukraine.

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said it was likely being used as a Ukrainian air defence missile, but that Russia carried ultimate responsibility for the incident for having invaded Ukraine, triggering a now almost nine-month-old war. Russia at the time was firing scores of missiles at cities across Ukraine.

WHAT IS THE S-300?
* The S-300 is a family of surface-to-air missiles, originally developed by the Soviet Union. It was first put into operation in the late 1970s after a decade of development.

* There are several versions of the S-300 rocket, with different technical capabilities and ranges. The maximum range of the standard missile is 150 km (93 miles) and the warheads weigh 133-143 kg (293-315 lb), according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

* It is unclear which version might have been used in Tuesday's incident.

* The S-300 is "more or less" a Russian equivalent to the U.S. Patriot surface-to-air missile system, said Siemon Wezeman, a senior researcher with the Arms Transfers Programme at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

* S-300 missiles are intended to shoot down aircraft, drones and incoming cruise and ballistic missiles. Full S-300 launchers include detection radars that track incoming targets. Missiles are equipped with guidance systems to automatically latch on to targets. Several individual missiles can be fired simultaneously at multiple targets.

* The most recent version of the S-300 - called the Antey-2500, which was put into operation in the early 2010s - has a range of 350 km, according to a catalogue entry on Rosobornexport, Russia's state-run arms export agency. The system has "high tactical and technical characteristics that allow to use it for air defence of the most important administrative, industrial and military facilities, troop groups, coastal infrastructure and naval forces at stationing site," Rosoboronexport's website says.

* The S-300 is "a fairly potent system, but in Russia it was to be replaced in coming years by the more capable S-400, S-350 and S-500 systems," said Wezeman.

WHO USES THE S-300 MISSILE?
* It is used by both Russia and Ukraine, as well as 18 other countries including NATO members Greece, Slovakia and Bulgaria, according to CSIS, a Washington-based think tank.

* There are several versions of the S-300 rocket, with different technical capabilities and ranges. The maximum range of the standard missile is 150 km (93 miles) and the warheads weigh 133-143 kg (293-315 lb), according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

* It is unclear which version might have been used in Tuesday's incident.

* The S-300 is "more or less" a Russian equivalent to the U.S. Patriot surface-to-air missile system, said Siemon Wezeman, a senior researcher with the Arms Transfers Programme at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
A nuclear war would be bad for everyone.

Which Countries Have Nuclear Weapons?
  1. Russia — 6,257 (1,458 active, 3039 available, 1,760 retired)
  2. United States — 5,550 (1,389 active, 2,361 available, 1,800 retired)
  3. China — 350 available (actively expanding nuclear arsenal)
  4. France — 290 available
  5. United Kingdom — 225 available
  6. Pakistan — 165 available
  7. India — 156 available
  8. Israel — 90 available
  9. North Korea — 40-50 available
Nuclear Weapons by Country 2022
Yes, it is very bad for everyone.
But, as we see there are people in the world who do suicide bombing, because some According to their religion believe, even if they die, they go to heaven, while the enemy goes to hell, so, it is worth it.
Then there are those who may not have such a religious belief, but they are selfish, and think, if they can not win, let no one win!
Gotta be careful with all those nuclear weapons and the crazy people in this world.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Maybe this was a politically correct statement by Nato. It is dangerous for Nato to go to war with Russia. It may lead to nuclear war. So, they avoid it as much as possible.

So the free and civilized world should yield to nuclear blackmail and allow a terrorist state to act with impunity?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Given that the rocket was used as a defensive measure intended to intercept Russian missiles targeting civilian infrastructure, so Russia still bears the blame.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So the free and civilized world should yield to nuclear blackmail and allow a terrorist state to act with impunity?
I don't have a short term good solution really for current situations. But we just need to choose between bad and worse.
Options.
But, I believe the long term solution is, we need a world government, consisted of representatives of all countries who is above any other governments, and can tell them all to destroy their nuclear bombs.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Given that the rocket was used as a defensive measure intended to intercept Russian missiles targeting civilian infrastructure, so Russia still bears the blame.

Its going to be Russia's fault no matter what.
Ukraine president Zelenskyy still denies it was a Ukraine missle(was just on the world news). Anything that happens they will blame Russia even if they did it themselves.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Given that the rocket was used as a defensive measure intended to intercept Russian missiles targeting civilian infrastructure, so Russia still bears the blame.
It's not credible. Russians are not on the Ukrainian-Polish border.
It looks like someone wanted to attack a Nato country to provoke a WW3
 
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