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Nationalism?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Quintessence, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. Tomorrows_Child

    Tomorrows_Child Active Member

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    I am from the UK...but we do have Bale (I know his Welsh but what ever) :p
     
  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Caritas Christi Urget Nos
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    By the way, @ShivaFan , I made the Nazi reference because the rhetoric you're spouting sure sounds fascistic to me. You're obviously a nationalist and a very strong one at that. You posit a paranoid conspiracy of "globalist elites" (including "bankers" and "liberal Jews", which are anti-Semitic tropes), appear to be xenophobic (you obviously hate Muslims and immigrants in general, from all the posts I've read from you), have a strong belief in "national revival", spout the same tired crap about communism and socialism that is par for the course among the far-right, support the Hindutva movement (which is neo-fascist and is currently persecuting its perceived enemies, including murdering Christians and Muslims, restricting their rights under the law, destroying churches and mosques and carrying out forced conversions; they are also homophobic and have brought back the "sodomy" laws) and there are undertones of violence in your rants. All of that is textbook fascism.
     
  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    True. Nationalism, however...
     
  4. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    The Han Chinese have been expanding out of their original "home" since forever. Nothing new about it.


    Libertarians are boring and American.


    The one who held slaves or the one who was a member of the Communist Party?


    The average American post about the EU in a nutshell.
     
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  5. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    Quote- "Doesn't making Britain great again involve making India a little on the subservient side?" -

    Islamic extremists want and have enslaved Hindus in India in such numbers it makes the old British Empire pale in comparison. Radical Jihadists are also slave owners. A strong England will help defeat the Radical Jihadists along with a strong India. Some obviously don't like that.
     
  6. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    Quote - "I made the Nazi reference because the rhetoric you're spouting sure sounds fascistic to me"

    Nonsense, you are calling me (and others) a Nazi and it is personal because it is an attempt to foment hate against others.

    As for the Jewish people, socialism has mass murdered them. As for liberal jews, they have been given so much support for decades by people like me only to see the same Liberals betray democracy and align with fascism and global elites themself. So it reaches a point where folks say, fine, then to hell with them.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. You accuse someone else of posting nonsense, and then you keep posting this rubbish.
     
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  8. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    Quote "you keep posting this rubbish"

    Boy, how unrubbish of a counter. I bet you say that a lot? You are trolling by personal attacks instead of general statements.
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    No, I'm calling out your accusing another poster of posting nonsense, yet you persist in your own nonsense of that socialists, radical Muslims, and Nazis are all working together, although the Nazis being Christian and radical Muslims being Muslims would be enemies against each other, and socialism is a broad term with left-wing socialists being opposed to both radical Muslims and Nazis. You keep going on about that, but it's not a sound or valid conclusion.
     
  10. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    That's actually Italian Fascism. But then again one should never let a good rambling be influenced by reality.
     
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  11. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    As typical, nonsense, the far left engages in specific personal attacks because they cannot argue the general issues broadly. Then they call any side taken on genral issue statements which are pointed out as nonsense as personal attacks which they are not. The far left is the greatest danger to free speech as well as to science.

    There is no such thing as scientific socialism other than it is yet another attack on science and has deep roots in racism.

    Nationalism today is a rejection of global elites who want autocracy.

    The Obamanist cannot, nor will ever, tell the truth in regards to the size of this "problem" of Radical Jihadism. And Obama himself is screwed up in his head with identity crisis and alliances between a far-left white parent on one side and a black muslim parent on the other. He is a neo-Islamists selling himself as an African-American which he isn't and a neo-Communist white selling himself as an "anti-colonialist".

    He has failed in everything. Obamacare is a disaster. He is a Pocahontas like phony such as Pocahontas Elizabeth Warren trying to get ahead using the lie she was American Indian. There is another one screwed up in the head with racial identity conflicts that ovedshadow their politics.

    Loretta Lynch is just a sidekick to racists who hate white people and the police including black police. She is a toad of ideologues who do not like democracy.

    Obama and Hillary violated the civil rights of the video maker which in yet another lie to cover for their failures and blatant maleficence and gun running in Libya and Benghazi during a re-election campaign by lies and blaming an internet video that no one in Libya ever saw, Hillary lied as people died and were murdered by the very weapons Hillary was running to the "rebels" who are worse than Gaddafi whuse last name is constantly spelled every which way just as the Obamanist switch words around like Al Queda in Iraq and Syria to ISIS to IS to Daesh to whatever words used by the ilk of Kerry to try and confuse Americans as one from another or what is even being talked about, really just another way to try and cover up the entire picture while hoping the next news cycle will bury what just happened.

    Today the Quinnipiac poll just came out and Clinton vrs Trump are in a dead heat, statistically tie at 42% to 40%, but I don't put faith in polls and believe Trump's lead is more like 6 points right now. All the doom and gloom about LEAVE is turning out to be bull, the DOW up for the second day in a row, but the economy does suck and has for 8 years and Americans know it and feel it and there isn't a one to one relation between the DOW and the economy and many do not have any skin in the markets or Wall Street and don't care other than their own economic situation on the real street which isn't good and EU is a disaster.

    Now Obama the Executive Order despot (it doesn't matter how many such orders but the nature of them) is about to try and screw democracy again by forming some globalist elite order across North America that is a threat to the democratic voice of the people and sovereignty itself.

    There will be another radical jihadist terrorist attack very soon, Obama knows it. Hillary helped cause and create ISIS. So they will try and distract by making Putin and Russia the boogie man.
     
    #111 ShivaFan, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
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  12. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Caritas Christi Urget Nos
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    That's actually not correct. Nazism isn't Christian and the leadership of the party wasn't Christian. Most of them hated Christianity. They tried to make it appear like they were getting along with the churches, but that was just a pragmatic move and they were actually restricting and persecuting Christian groups, including Catholics. They planned to marginalize the churches into insignificance.

    As for Islam, Hitler actually spoke admiringly of it and they had alliances of convenience with some Muslim leaders. Not they really cared about Islam, either. Nazism is really a religion unto itself.
     
    #112 Saint Frankenstein, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Caritas Christi Urget Nos
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    No, it's simply pointing out reality to you, and you are spewing hatred with every one of your posts. I'm trying to get you to stop and think, but that appears to be futile? Now you're veering into racism against mixed people and black people with your "Obama has "racial identity conflicts" and "Pocahontas" talk.

    :facepalm:
     
  14. Adramelek

    Adramelek Setian
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    I could not have said it any better myself. The only thing Hillary Clinton's experience over the past 15 years as a lying corrupt senator, secretary of state, and presidential candidate qualifies her for is retirement and/or prison.
     
    #114 Adramelek, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    How did I personally attack you? I didn't. I attacked you constant rambling that Socialists are working with radical Muslims and Nazis. There is no connection. You might as well be saying that Scientists are working with Young Earth Creationists to take over public education - it makes just as much sense to say that and is equally invalid of a statement.
     
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  16. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    I think some socialism is good but definitely not when its the primary policy. Help explain to me how socialism mass murdered the Jews? What definition of socialism did this?

    Trying to understand this thought better...
     
  17. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    I don't. I actually came up with that argument myself. I've never seen anyone else make it in this context.
     
  18. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    National Socialism is socialism. As far as the anti-Semitic aspect of the National Socialist German Workers Party, the propaganda of "the dirty capitalist Jew" is a common theme that attracted Hitler to the Workers Party and was a theme not only found in Germany.

    Let us go to Russia. Recently a rally by a group called the Traditionalist Worker Party made the news here in California made the news after they were violently attacked by far leftist groups including a Berkeley teacher who has engaged in violent acts in the past and actually should probably be investigated by the FBI for likely other violent plots and terrorist agenda, Radical Islamists, Black Lives Matter and a group that want California to become part of Mexico, and some other domestic terrorists types, suddenly they approached with knives and a handgun and assaulted those who had a permit to gather and speak, the extremist "demonstrators" who attacked those who had peacefully assembled also attacked the police who tried to protect the free speech and right to assemble of the rally and who had a permit to do so.

    Now I do not support this group the TWP. However, in context of this discussion, the members of this Worker Party were called a Neo-Nazi group in headlines and the press. But there is another more accurate perspective to the origins of this group which was also known in the past as the Orthodox Traditionalists and other monikers and which some of their literature is in Russian.

    The Orthodox part of this has to do with the Eastern Orthodox religion of Russia and Greece and other areas including Serbians. Their symbol is very much from the communist genre and includes a farmers pitchfork inside a gear. They have many books praising Putin of Russia. In fact, there is evidence the Russian government has approved this group if not even funded it.

    This group is anti-Jewish. But of the Russian genre, less the German ideation. But this group also hates the "capitalist Jew". Pogroms against Jews in Russia goes way back. This, like other Worker Party genres, are pro-worker, pro-labor, anti-capitalist.

    This group may support the Orthodox Church but actually have little interest in religion and a lot of interest in its social elitism, a type of Russian genre that are more Neo-Communist. They are also socialists.

    The Baath Party in the Arab world which in the early days fostered politicized Islam, is the socialism of the ME. The Baathists are socialists. And most if not all, are anti-Jewish and Islamists. Actually most of the Baathiats were about their own power and autocracy who used Islam and saw Islam as autocratic but their politics was socialism.

    Socialism is a modern idreation which in it's rather short history has managed to mass murder many. Getting right duwn to it, it is simply a militaristic theme in art and words and then action to Spartanize people into collective murder of others used as scapegoats and central governnment. It is a generalization of course, nothing is 100 percent.

    The funny thing is, socialists of one group tend to typically attack other socialists of a different group in violent attacks. But so do criminal gangs, even though each gang has essentiallly the same agenda.

    As for Nationalism, not all are good. But it is a moniker now for the anti-establishment movement and it is world wide. We are now living in dangerous times, but this thing is a form of a tiger who has had its tail pulled too many times. It is also an adventure for many, a reason to have fun. They will hit back, and hard. That might be later. Or sooner.

    But everything is a generalization.

    I am NOT saying Nationalism as today is Jesus or goodness. But it is part of nature. It wasn't created by itself. In fact, those who hate them in large part created it.

    Evita. An Eva Peron is coming and it sure the hell isn't Hillary Clinton. Watch. And she will be just as beautiful.
     
  19. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm wrong, but when I think of socialism, I think more of economic policies like wealth distribution and such.
     
    #119 suncowiam, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  20. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Are the Islamic extremists not also Indians?
    I guess I'm confused by exactly what your definition of a strong England and a strong India means in any practical sense.

    (As a side request, can you either quote my post directly, or tag me in? Makes it easier for me to know you've responded to me. Thanks!!)
     
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