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Featured Name of Jehovah in new testament

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Christ's Prophet, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Christ's Prophet

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    There are those who propose that they are the witnesses for Jehovah God and only they are in the process of restoring His name to its’ rightful place. I find it interesting that the name Jehovah is mentioned some 1,500 times in the Old Testament but zero times in the New Testament. It has never, ever, been found in any New Testament manuscript even in the original language going back as far as the manuscripts dated 125.C.E. The name ‘Jehovah’ should be all over the New Testament. Does that mean that they only witnesses for the Old Testament? If Christ came to make His Father’s name known, why is His Father’s name so absent? Jesus Christ came to represent His Father and to die in His name. Did He fail in that mission? Your thoughts? Certainty for eternity.
     
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  2. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, I never thought about it. Difference in the original languages perhaps. Greek verses Hebrew or Aramaic? IDK. But you've piqued my curiosity.
     
  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Because the Gospels are written in Greek, and especially in John, they speak of a more metaphysical God, quite incompatible with the YHWH of the OT.

    Since I know Greek only...it would be interesting to ask Jews how we should translate O' theòs into Hebrew.

    @btw the Septuagint translates the word YHWH with Lord
     
    #3 Estro Felino, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  4. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Why did God wait so friggin long to restore his name?....why was it not in the text century after century after century?o_O

    If it was so important to God why did he let people get his name wrong for so many centuries, and here we are in the 21st century, and most texts still don't have his name right! Seriously? God really cares about it, but he acted so powerless in his ability to make it known!?:rolleyes:

    It's really not a big deal to him obviously. And he told me his name isn't Jehovah. No J in Hebrew! ;)
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is due to a faulty understanding of the language by modern Hebrew translators, which works more like Arabic...

    In Ancient Hebrew Yah (H3050) is a two letter word meaning Lord, and Yah-Avah means 'Lord who manifests'...

    Yehoshua means 'Lord who saves'.

    Yeshua who spoke Hebrew translated verses that were in the Tanakh with YHVH, as meaning Lord; not a name.
    Because Yeshua Elohim did make his father the God Most High (El Elyon) known, as did Gabriel, demons, etc:

    Mark 11:9-10 (2), Luke 1:32, Luke 1:35, Luke 1:76, Luke 2:14, Luke 6:35, Luke 19:38, Mark 5:7, Mark 6:21, Luke 8:28, Mark 5:7, Luke 8:28
    He didn't come to die in his fathers name, he was murdered as prophesied by the leaders; thus divorcing Israel/Judah (Zechariah 11), whilst laying a Curse (Malachi 4:5-6) and Snare (Isaiah 8, Isaiah 28) upon humanity for doing so, as they don't pay attention to context.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
    #5 wizanda, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Very interesting
    The Septuagint, indeed replaces YHWH with o Kyrios (Lord).

    El Elyon is translated with o Theòs ò Ypsistos (exact translation, because it means God the highest)

    But El Shaddai is translated with ò Theòs ò Pantokrator ...I don't know Hebrew, but I don't think that Shaddai means pantokrator.
    The word pantokrator is made up of Pan (all) and kratos (power), so omnipotent.
     
    #6 Estro Felino, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    "In the Emphatic Diaglott (1864) a translation of the New Testament by Benjamin Wilson, the name Jehovah appears eighteen times.

    The Five Pauline Epistles, A New Translation (1900) by William Gunion Rutherford uses the name Jehovah six times in the Book of Romans.

    In the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (1961, 1984, 2013) published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Jehovah appears 7,199 times in the 1961 edition, 7,210 times in the 1984 revision and 7,216 times in the 2013 revision, comprising 6,979 instances in the Old Testament,[100] and 237 in the New Testament—including 70 of the 78 times where the New Testament quotes an Old Testament passage containing the Tetragrammaton,[101] where the Tetragrammaton does not appear in any extant Greek manuscript.

    The Original Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) by David Bauscher, a self-published English translation of the New Testament, from the Aramaic of The Pe****ta New Testament with a translation of the ancient Aramaic Pe****ta version of Psalms & Proverbs, contains the word "JEHOVAH" approximately 239 times in the New Testament, where the Pe****ta itself does not. In addition, "Jehovah" also appears 695 times in the Psalms and 87 times in Proverbs, totaling 1,021 instances."
    source



    Why?
     
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  8. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It deals with a fraudulent, fake translation...since in the NT you can find either ὁ Θεός, (with article) or Θεός,(without)...so replacing this word, God with Jehovah is really unscientific. ​
     
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  9. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    From a non-JW site:
    Jehovah in the NT
    Although there are no remaining ancient Christian Era Scripture (New Testament) manuscripts that contain the full name of God, there are four reasons why we believe that the Name actually existed in the original texts back in the First Century. They are:

    · The Name would have been found in many of the ancient Hebrew texts that are quoted by Jesus and his disciples.

    · Jesus mentioned God having a Name in ‘The Lord’s Prayer,’ and at John 5:43, 10:25, 12:13, 17:26.

    · The Name still appears in the Revelation as part the word HalleluJah. For Hallel means praise, u implies second person, and Jah is a shortened form of Jehovah (you find this shortened form used in many Hebrew names of people, such as EliJah).

    · The fact that Christians who lived in Jerusalem were still worshiping at the Temple of Jehovah late into Paul’s ministry proves that they still viewed Jehovah as their God (see Acts 21:20-26).


    It appears as though God’s Name was originally removed from the OT texts by Jewish scribes either during or shortly after the First Century CE. Therefore, it’s not surprising that it may have also been removed from the NT texts by later ‘Christian’ Jewish copyists.

    Note for example, the words of 2 Timothy 1:18. For in this Bible we have translated the words as saying:
    ‘So, may the Lord grant him mercy from Jehovah.’

    In the existing Greek texts, this reads:
    ‘δῴη αὐτῷ ὁ Κύριος εὑρεῖν ἔλεος παρὰ Κυρίου,’
    or,
    ‘May grant to/him the Lord to/find mercy from Lord.’

    As you can see, two ‘Lords’ are mentioned here and only one is preceded by the definite article, the. But if Paul was in fact speaking of Jesus in both places where the Greek word for ‘Lord’ is found in that text, he would have simply written:
    May the Lord grant him mercy.’

    However, notice that Paul was talking about the Lord (Jesus) granting this person (Onesiphorus) mercy from a third person whom the current Greek text also refers to as Κύριος (Lord). This is obviously a case where the Divine Name has been omitted from the existing Greek text. As you can see, Paul was speaking of Jesus granting the man (Onesiphorus) mercy from The God (Jehovah)… so the context shows that God’s name must have originally been there!

    When was this substitution of ‘Lord’ for God’s Name likely made? It has been argued (and there is considerable textual evidence that this is true) that all of Paul’s writings were translated from his common language (Aramaic) into Greek in the early Second Century, and this appears to be the period in which this, as well as several other changes to the original texts, were made.

    Understand that we are Bible translators (not teachers); so, our conclusions on this are based strictly on our research, not on a desire to take a religious position. And because we can see that such changes were obviously made; this Bible is one that uses God’s Name in the Christian Era Scriptures.

    However, unlike other Bibles that use the Divine Name there, you will see that we have avoided using it in places where the two Greek words ho Kyrios (the Lord) could actually be speaking of Jesus, for we own no franchise on the use of God’s Name. Rather, you will notice that we have inserted the English spelling of the Divine Name (Jehovah) where the NT text is quoting OT texts that are clearly speaking of The God and were not prophecies about Jesus (we will discuss more about that below). You will also find a few places in the NT that we have inserted God’s Name where the text is clearly speaking about The God (not about ‘the Lord’ Jesus), which we have done for the purpose of clarification.

    Yet, whenever there is any question about which ‘Lord’ is being mentioned (and there are several questionable instances), we have simply left it translated it as ‘the Lord.’

    Objections to Using God’s Name in the NT
    Some have objected to putting the Name Jehovah in the Greek text, for they say that use of the Divine Name would have been offensive – and may have resulted in stoning – if Jesus and his disciples had actually spoken or written it, because of the supposed Jewish tradition against doing such a thing. Yet, God’s Name had to be used when the Apostles were preaching to the gentiles… otherwise, these people simply wouldn’t have known which ‘Lord’ the disciples were talking about (remember that the gentiles to whom they preached believed in other Gods). For, to call God the Lord when most gods (and many men) were also called lord, would have been confusing to all those to whom Jesus’ disciples preached, both Jews and Gentiles.

    So, it is because we know that the non-Jews to whom Jesus’ disciples spoke had to be told the True God’s Name to differentiate him from their pagan gods, that we seriously question whether the use of the Name was really as offensive as some claim it was prior to JeruSalem’s destruction by the Roman armies in 70-CE… also, we find it hard to imagine Jesus ever being afraid to speak the Name of his Father!

    Another common argument that we’ve heard against using The Name in the Christian Era Scriptures (NT) is that it was the time of Jesus, and all mention of the Lord referred to him. However, numerous texts prove that this argument isn’t valid… and again; it is hard for us to imagine Jesus pushing his own name over the Name of his Father.

    But, recognize that there are still serious problems with trying to correctly insert the Divine Name in the Bible to replace it with the words that have been substituted by Jewish and Christian copyists, since the title ‘Lord’ appears to have been the correct choice in many places. For, as we will discuss below, even the Masoretic copyists of the Hebrew text have clearly gotten it wrong in several instances!”

    —Source:http://www.2001translation.com/Jehovah.htm#_3
     
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  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The important point in this is the El (H410) part...

    El Shaddai (God Almighty) is a singular in ancient Hebrew; Elohim (H430) is something breathed by God, when we add the 'h' to the word, and is plural by the 'im' at the end...

    Like Sara/Abram became Sarah and Abraham, when blessed by God.

    EL is not like the Elohim (Isaiah 46:9), and is the Source of reality; YHVH Elohim is the Lord of this reality, and chief of the Divine Beings/Arch Angels.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  11. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    well...with all due respect...I still don't understand why you say that Shaddai means almighty...

    only because in the septuagint we find pantokrator?



    I read that in Hebrew the word for all is klh , while the word for mighty, potent is az.
    Shaddai doesn't mean almighty, then.
     
    #11 Estro Felino, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Because Shaddai is a Hebrew word (H7706) meaning 'all powerful'.
    This is interesting, how translations of words adapt the meanings slightly... Yet the Greek word pantokrator (G3841) has more or less the same meaning:

    'From G3956 (All) and G2904 (Powerful); the all ruling, that is, God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty, Omnipotent.'

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    “Jehovah” is an English bastardization of the Tetragrammaton: YHVH as spelled out in Hebrew letters in the Hebrew texts. There are no vowels in biblical Hebrew, so that’s why the “e,” “o,” and “a” “bastardize” the name. The name is not, strictly, “Jehovah.”

    The reason why it’s absent from the NT is because the NT wasn’t written in Hebrew; it was written in Koine Greek. Therefore the Tetragrammaton does not appear. There’s nothing theologically sinister going on; it’s merely a difference in languages. The name “Jehovah,” therefore, has no business being “all over” the Greek texts. It would be scholastically disingenuous to superimpose a name that was not used. In fact, “Jehovah” is usually denoted by “LORD” in most reputable translations, where YHVH is found in the texts.
     
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  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    This is irresponsibility posing as “good scholarship.”
     
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  15. Christ's Prophet

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  16. Christ's Prophet

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    Here is a reply to another debater. Instead of writing it all again, you may find some aspects of this reply valid to your argument. Much of what you are saying is true. Keep up the good work.
    Jesus talked about the name of His Father, but did not directly mention what that name was. It is important to consider what our Lord Jesus had to say about His Father:-
    John 14:8-9 (KJV)
    8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
    9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Our Lord was more interested in showing people how to have a personal relationship with God rather than to argue about His name. When they saw ‘Jesus’, they saw God His Father.
    With respect to the issue of the name of Jehovah being removed from all manuscripts by the Jews, this seems to be highly unlikely and a desperate idea to those who are incapable or unwilling to consider any alternative. There are about 5,000 pieces of manuscripts in existence today and none of them have the name of Jehovah. You must also consider that not all original books and letters are written to Jews, but many to Gentiles. Are they all of the same conspiracy?? Were the Gentiles also desperate to get rid of the name Jehovah from every scrap of manuscript?? There is the complete lack of any evidence of any record of any loud and clear complaint from the Gentiles?
    You say that Jesus used the name of the Father, but it seems to me that they were far more interested in the name of Jesus. Why was this do you think? If Jesus came to make His Father’s name known, then the name ’Jehovah’ should be mentioned hundreds of times throughout the New Testament, but it isn’t.
    When you mention 2 Timothy 1:18, my Bible says:-
    2 Timothy 1:18 (KJV)
    18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

    When I read my version as it is interpreted correctly, I don’t see any difficulty. It could be one or two Lords. Whether it has the article or none is no difficulty.
    The previous verse about Onesiphorus leaves no evidence of the name of ‘Jehovah’ ever being there. I think that is wishful thinking??
    Now, I have to make an admission. In the opening question, I said that ‘Jesus came to make His Father’s name known.’ No-one has picked up on the fact that there is no such Scripture. That was a red herring. Jesus never said that He came to make His Father’s name known. It was all about Jesus’ name. But now here is something to think about. There are people who have made it a life’s study of the ancient Hebrew language. They say that they have come to understand it despite the language having no vowels. From their research, they believe that the name of God is YAHAWAH (name of the most high). The name of Joshua in the Greek in the Old Testament is the same as Jesus in the New Testament. The name of Joshua in the ancient Hebrew in the Old Testament is YAHAWAHSHI (YAHAWAH is salvation) and thus the name ‘Jesus’ in the New Testament in the ancient Hebrew is YAHAWAHSHI. So in the Greek when people called on the name of Jesus, they were effectively saying ‘YAHAWAH is salvation’ thus making the name of God known. I think I have explained that correctly. Certainty for eternity.
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I think someone once said that a rose by any other name would still smell like a rose. So why the worry about a name? YHWH or Yahweh or Jehovah or something else. So what? As long as you worship God, does it really matter what name you use? People worry about the most foolish of things and want to condemn someone else because of a different name for God or Jehovah, or whoever.
     
  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Because it does matter to God Himself, which god you give your allegiance to . (Exodus 20:1-5) It's not Jesus...this is Who Jesus gave his allegiance to! -- John 20:17.
     
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  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I notice Jesus did not give his father a name. So maybe names are not that important as long as we worship God by any name.
     
  20. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
    and didn't God say "I am what I am"
     
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