Name a Christian church in America that:

[tayla]

social principles that she does not condone homosexuality and that homsexuality is not compatible with Christian teachings has driven me away from her and churchgoing for the most part.

In my view, revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths are untrustworthy sources of truth and knowledge. Human behaviors should be judged using science and philosophy, not using religion. Otherwise, we will as a society be forever burning heretics at the stake.

 

[Nimos]

Such laws do not apply to Christians since we are under a different law. The Law of Moses has no bearing on those who are not born under it so it is not Christlike to burden them with it. In Christ we have the Law of Love and Grace which means that we are free but we have to be careful with that freedom because it isn't always beneficial but we are not under any condemnation if we utilize that freedom. We have to understand that "freedom hurts" and it cost an very high price. So under the Law of Grace where is the condemnation for being gay?

I think you fail to see my point.

Christian or not. having to follow the law or not. Let me remind you we are talking about an ultimately good God. So what does it tells you about that God when he say something like that?

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

In my view, revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths are untrustworthy sources of truth and knowledge. Human behaviors should be judged using science and philosophy, not using religion. Otherwise, we will as a society be forever burning heretics at the stake.

The United Methodist Church did say that she had regard for the sacred rites of homosexuals though she frowned upon the practice. No Methodist minister I've heard preach said that he hated homosexuals or homosexuality. The Methodist ministers I witnessed preach at worship never said that homosexuals were going to hell for that reason. One Methodist minister even doubted as to whether he believed in Hell or the devil exactly as taught in the bible. Older churches in history might have condemned him for heresy. Without a hell or a devil, then why is there even a need for a Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to save our souls? The whole point of Christianity is to head to the Good H (Heaven) when we die, not the Bad H (Hell).

While visiting my aunt in Georgia in 1999, I went with her to her Baptist church in a community called Geneva in south Georgia. The young clean-shaven and clean cut preacher wearing jeans (much too casual to be respectfully dressed in church especially as a clergyman) while preaching on Sunday morning angrily said he did not not hate a homosexual person in his life but that he hated HOMOSEXUALITY as a "DISEASE". This confirms my belief that the South is full of ignorant rednecks who wave the bible in "the name of Christ". When ministers start angrily preaching against homosexuality in church it means there must be a personal insecurity problem.

If Christian clergymen actually dressed as Jesus Christ as He is pictured in art, I would have more respect for them than preachers who wear jeans and tee shirts at service.

A man who dresses like Jesus Christ would have to wear a long white robe, sandals no socks, long hair and beard. I personally like to be clean-shaven as I feel beards are ugly, uncomfortable to wear and unsanitary. Jesus and his disciples wore long hair and beards to humble themselves for God.

 

[PruePhillip]

This is an unique approach ain't it? Not saying there is anything wrong with it. But why would you seek something that have treated you bad?

The reason they teach that homosexuality is not compatible with the bible is most likely due to several reasons:

First of all because God commanded humans (Adam and Eve) to become many.

Then you have all the verses of Gods view on primarily men on men sexuality, not really sure it applies to women.

Leviticus 18
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 20
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

I have never understood why homosexuals find Christianity appealing and cares to fight for the right to be married, they ought to be on the forefront fighting against this non sense. Whenever I hear someone expressing how difficult they find it trying to get accepted, why doesn't it make them wonder why that might be the case?

To me it seems like a lamb willingly going to the slaughterhouse. What does it matter what a priest or other self proclaimed speakers of God think, when God have clearly stated his view on this matter.

I hope you find religion some where that can accept you for who you are, you shouldn't waste your life listening to these people spreading these utter immoral and stupid ideas. Instead you should stand up and fight them

The bible has strong issues too with adultery and divorce.
And sex with animals.
And theft, murder, hate, jealousy, gambling and such.
I am okay with people rejecting the bible for all this - but
don't try to pick and chose from the bible.

 

[80s fashion girl]

Such laws do not apply to Christians since we are under a different law. The Law of Moses has no bearing on those who are not born under it so it is not Christlike to burden them with it. In Christ we have the Law of Love and Grace which means that we are free but we have to be careful with that freedom because it isn't always beneficial but we are not under any condemnation if we utilize that freedom. We have to understand that "freedom hurts" and it cost an very high price. So under the Law of Grace where is the condemnation for being gay?

Nemos already gave that scripture, but here it is again: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, not revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God.

The word gay isn't written because it was not in their vocabulary at that time. Homosexual/gay means the same thing.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

Nemos already gave that scripture, but here it is again: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, not revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God.

The word gay isn't written because it was not in their vocabulary at that time. Homosexuals were gay.

The word HOMOSEXUAL is not even found in the King James Version.

Here is the KJV:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Somebody is quoting some bogus modern version of "the bible" which translation is unreliable.

The meaning of abusers of themselves with mankind is vague and questionable.

By effeminate it sounds like sissy men and boys are hellbound but didn't this grown man Jesus Christ, the Son of God of all persons, weep real tears?

Bear in mind that some men who love other men are not sissies at all. Some such men are even brave combat soldiers, prizefighters and football players.

John 11:35 (KJV)

32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. 35 Jesus wept. 36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! 37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? 38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

It sounds like Jesus was made to feel guilty for having not saved a man's life but praised for His tears of love nonetheless.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I think you fail to see my point.

Christian or not. having to follow the law or not. Let me remind you we are talking about an ultimately good God. So what does it tells you about that God when he say something like that?

What part of atheist did you not understand?

 

[80s fashion girl]

The word HOMOSEXUAL is not even found in the King James Version.

Here is the KJV:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Somebody is quoting some bogus modern version of "the bible" which translation is unreliable.

The meaning of abusers of themselves with mankind is questionable.

I quoted from the NKJV. I just looked up that scripture in my 1611 King James and effeminate is in place of the NKJV homosexual.

Definitely a different meaning.

1599 Geneva bible: I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggers, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

There's been research that the KJV is the most unreliable version, but unless we have original manuscripts it's debatable.

 

[80s fashion girl]

A man being effeminate as a reason for condemnation?? Scriptures like that is why I've studied different versions and biblical origins.

 

[Nimos]

And nowhere in the King James Version is there a commandment directly from God or Jesus Christ for one man not to "lie with" another man, period.

Leviticus from KJV
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

What do you think mankind means?

The KJV might not use the word directly and if that is the only thing that worries you, well then it shouldn't be a problem. I do however think you are slightly fooling yourself, not meant in a bad way, when you try to fit it into what you want to believe.

Even if homosexuals were put to death under ancient Jewish law, there is nothing in the bible stating that homosexuals will be damned to hell eternally.

But doesn't it makes you wonder, why they should be put to death, why is that important for God that this applies to those people? This type of sexuality is punished for being wrong, do you agree with homosexuality being wrong and that it should be punished in any way?

And also what makes you think that if God want homosexuals dead wouldn't also mean that they are going to hell for eternity? Remember that Jews don't believe in hell as some Christians do, this is something that was added later on by some of them.

But if homosexuals were seen as equal to non homosexuals what is the need for the verses pointing out this behavior as being wrong?

If Our Lord Jesus Christ, following the will of His Father in Heaven, had wanted there to be no worldly homosexual practices as a condition for salvation, He would have said something about it expressly in the New Testament.

If you are looking for direct quotes where Jesus say something specific you might not find it. However Jesus does say that the law should be kept and even give an example of a child that defy their parents should be killed as the law demand. So obviously you can say that Jesus using this example ONLY applies to this specific law. But to me it just seems like you are desperately trying to make what you want to believe fit with the bible. Again which is fine, its obviously your choice, I personally just think you are going to have to spend a lot of energy, time and end up with a lot of unnecessary issues due to this.

You should do what you feel is right for you, I really have no problem with that. And I again, I hope you find a Christian faith that can truly accept you for who you are.

 

[Nimos]

The bible has strong issues too with adultery and divorce.
And sex with animals.
And theft, murder, hate, jealousy, gambling and such.
I am okay with people rejecting the bible for all this - but
don't try to pick and chose from the bible.

I don't pick and choose or at least I try not to. But it wouldn't make much sense for me to quote verses regarding sex with animals, when its clear from the OP post that what concerns him is homosexuality and not bestiality?

 

[Nimos]

What part of atheist did you not understand?

Well I thought you were joking, when you wrote that you were an Christian atheist as you were not sure if it were actually God that said it. Did I misunderstand something?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Well I thought you were joking, when you wrote that you were an Christian atheist as you were not sure if it were actually God that said it. Did I misunderstand something?

How can God say anything if God doesn't exist?

 

[Nimos]

How can God say anything if God doesn't exist?

Well as an atheist if you are going to discuss religion, you have to do it based on the available material and with the assumption that what someone believe is true to them based on that material.

How would you debate anything if that weren't the case?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Well as an atheist if you are going to discuss religion, you have to do it based on the available material and with the assumption that what someone believe is true to them based on that material.

How would you debate anything if that weren't the case?

Well I don't believe that stuff is true

 

[Nimos]

Well I don't believe that stuff is true

Neither do I, but some people do. And they use the bible as their material and belief, for making their points regarding what God/Jesus said and didn't say, how people ought to believe, behave and so on.

Arguing against that, by simply saying that you don't believe in God, makes little sense to them (and me ) Because a lot of times I disagree with the conclusions that they get to when they quote the bible, so to me, they use the material wrong and that is what im arguing against.

Not really a lot different than if you quote Lord of the Rings and claims that Gandalf weren't actually a wizard or something, based on this and this, then I would say the same, that you were using the material wrong. Even though non of us actually believe that Gandalf exists.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Neither do I, but some people do. And they use the bible as their material and belief, for making their points regarding what God/Jesus said and didn't say, how people ought to believe, behave and so on.

Arguing against that, by simply saying that you don't believe in God, makes little sense to them (and me ) Because a lot of times I disagree with the conclusions that they get to when they quote the bible, so to me, they use the material wrong and that is what im arguing against.

Not really a lot different than if you quote Lord of the Rings and claims that Gandalf weren't actually a wizard or something, based on this and this, then I would say the same, that you were using the material wrong. Even though non of us actually believe that Gandalf exists.

I don't think you are very knowledgeable as to what Christian atheism is. Perhap you should educate yourself on the subject before you argue against it

 

[Nimos]

I don't think you are very knowledgeable as to what Christian atheism is. Perhap you should educate yourself on the subject before you argue against it

My knowledge about Christian atheism doesn't really make any difference. If you want to argue against a Christian you would have to do it the same way as I would. With an assumption that the person you are arguing against believe differently than you. So its doesn't matter if you and me can agree that God doesn't exists, if those we are arguing against say he does and that it is written in the Bible that God said this and that. Then that is the material we have to relate to, whether we agree with it or not.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

I don't think you are very knowledgeable as to what Christian atheism is. Perhap you should educate yourself on the subject before you argue against it

What is "Christian atheism"? How can a follower of Christ not believe in God?

Christ without God is like the Earth without the life-giving sea, soil, rain, moon and sun.

It's impossible to have a Godless Jesus Christ!

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

What is "Christian atheism"? How can a follower of Christ not believe in God?

Christ without God is like the Earth without the life-giving sea, soil, rain, moon and sun.

It's impossible to have a Godless Jesus Christ!

I do believe there are people in this world who are born with the natural predisposition to be attracted to other persons of the same sex but who also accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior as well as an immortal supernatural God as the all-knowing, all-loving, all-merciful and all-powerful Creator of Heaven and Earth with an undying interest in the happenings and fate of Man and the affairs of this world He fashioned with His own hands. God made His only begotten Son in a worldly Virgin's womb with His planned death upon the Calvary cross to save us out His love and grace alone, not because we deserve to be saved or somehow earned salvation.