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Featured Name a Christian church in America that:

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    Considering getting back into the fold: coming home to Jesus in an Affirmed Church this time.
    1. addresses the Spirit of God only as "Holy Ghost" and that the Holy Ghost is in the form of a dove

    2. accepts only the Holy Bible (King James Version) for its canon of Christian faith

    3. accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and as the only Mediator between Man and God

    4. does NOT recognize homosexuality as a sin, therefore is LGBT affirming

    5. does NOT accept the ordination of women

    6. accepts God as only a male person

    I cannot interpret anything in Scripture as a direct prohibition against homosexuality. I can, however, see strong arguments against women ministers in I Timothy and I Corinthians. Holy Spirit is never used in the King James Version, but only "Holy Ghost" is used in the First English Language Bible first published in 1611.

    The only LGBT-affirming church I could find in Lawton, Oklahoma is Emmanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church but ELCA unfortunately ordains women ministers. I believe God did not design women with the power and authority to deliver sacraments. Until I find a church near my home that meets all six conditions my hind side is not inclined to come in contact with a pew.

    I was baptised a United Methodist at age 17, but this church's acceptance of women ministers, referral to God as "Father and Mother" and her statement in her social principles that she does not condone homosexuality and that homsexuality is not compatible with Christian teachings has driven me away from her and churchgoing for the most part. When a Southern baptsist minister proclaims that he hates homsexuality during service and when at least one other church waves God Hates F_gs signs, I progressively have gotten turned off cold from the faith. I would like to come back home to Christ in a church that meet all my criteria but it might be a tall order: a church conservative enough to ordain men only but liberal enough to accept LGBT.
     
    #1 Jonathan Bailey, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Fundamentalist Bible Baptist Churches.
     
  4. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Y'know, it is a long American tradition here: if you can't find the one that teaches everything you believe, then...

    Start one.

    I can tell you this; the one I belong to won't see your hind end in one of the pews, either.
     
  5. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    This is an unique approach ain't it? Not saying there is anything wrong with it. But why would you seek something that have treated you bad?

    The reason they teach that homosexuality is not compatible with the bible is most likely due to several reasons:

    First of all because God commanded humans (Adam and Eve) to become many.

    Then you have all the verses of Gods view on primarily men on men sexuality, not really sure it applies to women.

    Leviticus 18
    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

    Leviticus 20
    13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

    Romans 1
    27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    1 Corinthians 6
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

    I have never understood why homosexuals find Christianity appealing and cares to fight for the right to be married, they ought to be on the forefront fighting against this non sense. Whenever I hear someone expressing how difficult they find it trying to get accepted, why doesn't it make them wonder why that might be the case?

    To me it seems like a lamb willingly going to the slaughterhouse. What does it matter what a priest or other self proclaimed speakers of God think, when God have clearly stated his view on this matter.

    I hope you find religion some where that can accept you for who you are, you shouldn't waste your life listening to these people spreading these utter immoral and stupid ideas. Instead you should stand up and fight them
     
    #5 Nimos, Jun 8, 2019
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  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    Because they believe in God and Jesus, and want to worship them. Oh, and civil marriage has nothing to do with religion. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.
     
  7. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    Reading the verses I quoted does it give the impression that God likes homosexuals? And if they were accepted in churches why don't all of them allow them to get married equally as a man and woman can?

    Either the church follows the bible or the church accept that what is written in it is utter non sense and therefore allow it anyway.
     
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  8. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    There are other interpretations of those verses, especially when put into context.

    Almost no church just follows what's written in the Bible, so I don't get why they necessarily have to on the LGBT question.
     
  9. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    What is another interpretation of this one?

    Leviticus 20
    13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
     
  10. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    That is Jewish Law not Christian Grace
     
  11. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    But we agree that this is said by God? :)

    1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    2 "Again, you shall say to the children of Israel:.....
     
  12. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    I am a Christian Atheist, so I guess we can't
     
  13. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    Fair enough :D Ill take the risk then and say that it indeed were God that said it. So it really doesn't matter if its Jewish law or not. Unless God only dislike Jewish homosexuals and the rest of the world can do as they please :)
     
  14. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Such laws do not apply to Christians since we are under a different law. The Law of Moses has no bearing on those who are not born under it so it is not Christlike to burden them with it. In Christ we have the Law of Love and Grace which means that we are free but we have to be careful with that freedom because it isn't always beneficial but we are not under any condemnation if we utilize that freedom. We have to understand that "freedom hurts" and it cost an very high price. So under the Law of Grace where is the condemnation for being gay?
     
  15. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Looking at all the arguments over the "meaning" of this or that verse, one thing totally confounds me...and this is very likely something that deserves a new thread of its own...why is it so hard for so many people to see that Bible as a work of literature, written by and for humans, rather than as something so completely other? I've never met a Christian who had any difficulty seeing the Qur'an that way, or the Granth Guru Sahib, or the Book of Mormon

    The same is true, of course, for those who believe the Qur'an, Granth Gury Sahib, Book of Mormon and many others were not merely the writings of humans, but "inspired by God." What is it about any one of these things that intrinsically, in and of itself, suggests that it is anything other than just human thought, trying to resolve human problems? What makes Muslims believe, for example, that without direct inspiration from God, a book like the Qur'an could never be written, when frankly, read by an unbeliever, it's actually pretty banal, and quite often wrong. (And having said this about the Qur'an, I'll say that it is also true of the Bible.)
     
  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Some of the Episcopal churches may suit you, although many do not view ordination women as problematic you may find one where the ministers are male. That may be enough to help you feel like you belong. There is a narrow band of churches where you will approximately fit in.
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Not saying I agree or disagree but Leviticus 20:13 says if a man lies with another man as with a woman they shall both be put to death. Sounds like a pretty strong prohibition against homosexuality.
     
  18. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    I means nothing to those under the Law of Grace
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Its a prohibition for the circumcised Jewish male. Beyond that its debatable. One could argue that it is unnecessary for males to have sex with males and that all time should be devoted to heavenly pursuits and to singing hymns and pure nonphysical love. The Shakers made this argument and soon died out, since the same argument applied to heterosexual acts.
     
  20. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    The above is from King James Version. It's unclear the meaning of the expression "lie with". Leviticus is the old Jewish law which Paul says we no longer have to follow as Christians. Maybe the ancient Jews customarily put homosexuals to death. If "lies with" means "have sexual intercourse", a man can't actually lie with another man in the same manner of lying with a woman anyway since a man has no vagina. And nowhere in the King James Version is there a commandment directly from God or Jesus Christ for one man not to "lie with" another man, period. Nowhere in the King James Version is the term "homosexuality" even stated. Even if homosexuals were put to death under ancient Jewish law, there is nothing in the bible stating that homosexuals will be damned to hell eternally. If Our Lord Jesus Christ, following the will of His Father in Heaven, had wanted there to be no worldly homosexual practices as a condition for salvation, He would have said something about it expressly in the New Testament.


    King James Bible

    2 Samuel 1:26
    I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

    Romans 7:4-6
    Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    The Bible, Christianity and Homosexuality | GayChurch.org


    A passage from above link:

    Thirdly, as revealed through Christ, the fulfillment of the law is truly love. Rape, stealing, hating, etc. are immoral because they are not in line with the Law of Love, which Christ frames so perfectly when questioned about the law. Is a committed homosexual relationship in violation of this law? We could become like the Pharisees and Sadducees trying to pick apart this law forever, but if we look closely, Christ’s life truly reveals the Spirit of the Law. Surely this is what Paul meant when he wrote, “But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit” (RSV Romans 7:4-6).
     
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