NAACP issues travel advisory for Florida...

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is this funny? Is it sad? Is it both? Perhaps the French word "triste" might be better?

The NAACP has issued a travel advisory for Florida, stating that the state is "openly hostile to African Americans, people of color and LGBTQ+ individuals."

But this is the naked truth -- Ron DeSantis is invoking a very real war on a multiplicity of the cultures and communities that make up the US (and his state) for the sole purpose of establishing himself as the carrier of the Republican Flag in the 2024 election.

All the gains, all that we've learned about each other, all the ways in which we have tried to come together and appreciate one another -- all of it -- is to be thrown under the bus so that he can be MR. BIG in the US instead of the wispy-haired pumpkin.

Who are you, America? I mean it -- who are you?

 

[fantome profane]

Latino truck driver boycott over new immigration work rules causes Jacksonville businesses to worry

Latino truck drivers are encouraging truckers everywhere to boycott Florida in response to the state’s immigration laws.

www.news4jax.com

Video shows abandoned Florida construction site after anti-immigration law

The law signed by Ron DeSantis expands requirements for the use of E-Verify, a system that determines if employees can legally work in the U.S.

www.newsweek.com

Florida agricultural workers are fearful ahead of new immigration law

Farmers and growers are also worried about a new state law that will require businesses with over 25 employees to verify their workers' legal employment status.

www.nbcnews.com

The phrase "be careful what you wish for" might be appropriate.

 

[Stevicus]

All the gains, all that we've learned about each other, all the ways in which we have tried to come together and appreciate one another -- all of it -- is to be thrown under the bus so that he can be MR. BIG in the US instead of the wispy-haired pumpkin.

Who are you, America? I mean it -- who are you?

America is essentially the same as it's always been. There was a brief period from roughly 1945 to 1980 or so when we seemed to be making real progress, but then, we started going backwards again. It's only been within the past few years that people are finally starting to notice.

 

[SomeRandom]

America is essentially the same as it's always been. There was a brief period from roughly 1945 to 1980 or so when we seemed to be making real progress, but then, we started going backwards again. It's only been within the past few years that people are finally starting to notice.

I saw somewhere where a person said
“America seemed to be going forward. Then 9/11 happened and we threw all of that away out of shock and hurt.”

That stuck with me. But as I’m not American and barely old enough to remember a pre 9/11 world, I was curious if you think that thought process holds any weight?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

America is essentially the same as it's always been. There was a brief period from roughly 1945 to 1980 or so when we seemed to be making real progress, but then, we started going backwards again. It's only been within the past few years that people are finally starting to notice.

I was born in 1948, and I watched a lot of that progress -- I'm very, very familiar with it, all the ups and downs, the lynchings and assassinations and the great, stirring speeches of MLK. During that time, I lived in Canada, always in multi-cultural and multi-ethnic/racial environments (my high school was a boys private boarding school that had students from all over the world -- run by Quakers -- I loved it!)

It is tearing me apart to see how America seems to be trying to tear itself apart -- for no real reason that I can see except the desire to be "top dog," to not let "the Jews replace us."

Honestly, I don't get it. At Toronto's Sikh Khalsa parade and festival, just three weeks ago, I had a Sikh gentleman teach me how to tie on a turban, with my lover watching -- we all had fun, and nobody hated each other. This happened at Dundas Square, at the very heart of Toronto's urban life (and Toronto is no mean city -- we're the 4th largest in all of North America).

Are Americans (or at least many of them) really so determined to "purify" the different folks out of their midst?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is this funny? Is it sad? Is it both? Perhaps the French word "triste" might be better?

The NAACP has issued a travel advisory for Florida, stating that the state is "openly hostile to African Americans, people of color and LGBTQ+ individuals."

But this is the naked truth -- Ron DeSantis is invoking a very real war on a multiplicity of the cultures and communities that make up the US (and his state) for the sole purpose of establishing himself as the carrier of the Republican Flag in the 2024 election.

All the gains, all that we've learned about each other, all the ways in which we have tried to come together and appreciate one another -- all of it -- is to be thrown under the bus so that he can be MR. BIG in the US instead of the wispy-haired pumpkin.

Who are you, America? I mean it -- who are you?

What a bunch of BS. Colored people are in no danger in Florida.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was born in 1948, and I watched a lot of that progress -- I'm very, very familiar with it, all the ups and downs, the lynchings and assassinations and the great, stirring speeches of MLK. During that time, I lived in Canada, always in multi-cultural and multi-ethnic/racial environments (my high school was a boys private boarding school that had students from all over the world -- run by Quakers -- I loved it!)

It is tearing me apart to see how America seems to be trying to tear itself apart -- for no real reason that I can see except the desire to be "top dog," to not let "the Jews replace us."

Honestly, I don't get it. At Toronto's Sikh Khalsa parade and festival, just three weeks ago, I had a Sikh gentleman teach me how to tie on a turban, with my lover watching -- we all had fun, and nobody hated each other. This happened at Dundas Square, at the very heart of Toronto's urban life (and Toronto is no mean city -- we're the 4th largest in all of North America).

Are Americans (or at least many of them) really so determined to "purify" the different folks out of their midst?

Your not even American. All you know is what the echo chambers spew out.

 

[Revoltingest]

America is essentially the same as it's always been. There was a brief period from roughly 1945 to 1980 or so when we seemed to be making real progress, but then, we started going backwards again. It's only been within the past few years that people are finally starting to notice.

I see a net positive since 1980.
Some encouraging factors....
- Gay marriage legal.
- Affirmative action has been on the decline.
- Some states have been curbing cops' qualified immunity.
- Some states have been curbing civil forfeiture abuse.
- The right to record cops & other things in public.
- The advent of cel phones & the internet have enabled people to hold
cops accountable for crimes they previously got away with scot free.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Your not even American. All you know is what the echo chambers spew out.

Yes, it may be true that I am not American.

But please clarify for me -- is the NAACP not American? Do they have no insight at all into what it might be like to be a black person in America? Or are you the sole owner of that wisdom?

Or do you just reject them because they're the wrong color?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I see a net positive since 1980.
Some encouraging factors....
- Gay marriage legal.
- Affirmative action has been on the decline.
- Some states have been curbing cops' qualified immunity.
- Some states have been curbing civil forfeiture abuse.
- The right to record cops & other things in public.
- The advent of cel phones & the internet have enabled people to hold
cops accountable for crimes they previously got away with scot free.

And you are, and I'm happy to say it, quite correct -- all those things have happened. They happened with a huge amount of effort by the people directly concerned -- and by their families, and their friends, and millions of people of good will. All true.

Now, given what is happening, state by state, do you see that forward momentum continuing? Or is it possible that there will be a bit of a slow-down -- or even reversal -- as the culture war (which I can only see as Republican, I'm sorry) wages?

 

[Revoltingest]

And you are, and I'm happy to say it, quite correct -- all those things have happened. They happened with a huge amount of effort by the people directly concerned -- and by their families, and their friends, and millions of people of good will. All true.

Now, given what is happening, state by state, do you see that forward momentum continuing? Or is it possible that there will be a bit of a slow-down -- or even reversal -- as the culture war (which I can only see as Republican, I'm sorry) wages?

3 steps forward.
2 steps backward.
Definitely uneven.

 

[Debater Slayer]

- Affirmative action has been on the decline.

How is this a good thing? Isn't whether it's good or bad merely determined by whether affirmative action is needed? If it's no longer needed, great. If it's needed but has been on the decline, that's pretty bad.

 

[TLK Valentine]

3 steps forward.
2 steps backward.
Definitely uneven.

But if we set it to music, it makes for a nice Cha-Cha...

But seriously, this is how social progress always happens: In any period of rapid social change, there's always some group that fears the consequence and tries to push back -- they may succeed partially, but never completely, and never in the long term.

 

[Revoltingest]

How is this a good thing?

It means less institutional discrimination based upon
gender & race.
I understand that many liberals want race & gender
based discrimination in order to "even things out".
But it imposes a penalty upon people who've done
nothing wrong, & are denied equal opportunity.
I say that's wrong.
Odd....the same government that would demand giving
preference to a minority or woman, would prosecute
me if I gave them preference in renting.

 

[Revoltingest]

But if we set it to music, it makes for a nice Cha-Cha...

But seriously, this is how social progress always happens: In any period of rapid social change, there's always some group that fears the consequence and tries to push back -- they may succeed partially, but never completely, and never in the long term.

At (nearly) 70, I take a longer view
than most whippersnappers. And
I'm an optimist with low expectations.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It means less institutional discrimination based upon
gender & race.
I understand that many liberals want race & gender
based discrimination in order to "even things out".
But it imposes a penalty upon people who've done
nothing wrong, & are denied equal opportunity.
I say that's wrong.
Odd....the same government that would demand giving
preference to a minority or woman, would prosecute
me if I gave them preference in renting.

Ah, so you don't believe affirmative action could be useful under any circumstances whatsoever, or just that it does more harm than good?

This is a complicated and separate topic, so I'll have to leave it alone for now. I think the question of whether affirmative action is justified depends on a lot of variables, so I see no constant answer to it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah, so you don't believe affirmative action could be useful under any circumstances whatsoever, or just that it does more harm than good?

I can see it being useful in some cases where it can
correct current wrongs.
But not as broadly or strictly applied has it had been.
In the past some universities (eg, U of M) & companies
(eg, Ford) had banned any white male new hires for
some jobs (eg, reactor operator, engineer). I oppose
such discrimination.

This is a complicated and separate topic, so I'll have to leave it alone for now. I think the question of whether affirmative action is justified depends on a lot of variables, so I see no constant answer to it.

I see the division as being about identity politics
& big government vs individual civil rights.
You & I won't resolve these opposing perspectives.

 

[Nakosis]

Is this funny? Is it sad? Is it both? Perhaps the French word "triste" might be better?

The NAACP has issued a travel advisory for Florida, stating that the state is "openly hostile to African Americans, people of color and LGBTQ+ individuals."

But this is the naked truth -- Ron DeSantis is invoking a very real war on a multiplicity of the cultures and communities that make up the US (and his state) for the sole purpose of establishing himself as the carrier of the Republican Flag in the 2024 election.

All the gains, all that we've learned about each other, all the ways in which we have tried to come together and appreciate one another -- all of it -- is to be thrown under the bus so that he can be MR. BIG in the US instead of the wispy-haired pumpkin.

Who are you, America? I mean it -- who are you?

Funny, I'm surrounded in Florida by folks who are non-White. We all get along fine.
Maybe the NAACP should avoid the political rhetoric and get to know real people.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I can see it being useful in some cases.
But not as broadly or strictly applied has it had been.
In the past some universities (eg, U of M) & companies
(eg, Ford) had banned any white male new hires for
some jobs (eg, reactor operator, engineer).

I have no idea what the policies of the University of Michigan and Ford were, so I have no comment here. My first thought based on what you said is that entirely excluding a whole ethnicity from a job either goes too far or requires extraordinary justification and must not last for long if it is ever implemented.

I see the division as being about identity politics
& big government vs individual civil rights.
You & I won't resolve these opposing perspectives.

Sometimes it's about identity politics, and sometimes it's about trying to level some aspects of systemic exclusion. As I said, I see no fixed answer for all applications of affirmative action.

By the way, I don't consider affirmative action to necessarily be against individual rights when applied usefully, because, in that case, it tries to advance individual rights for the groups targeted by exclusion.

Of course, there's also the whole social spectrum whose opposite ends are individualism and collectivism. I favor a balance between the two. (I'm significantly more individualist than my society generally is but probably more collectivist than many Americans.)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

3 steps forward.
2 steps backward.
Definitely uneven.

As long as the steps go in that order. History suggests that sometimes, it can be 3 back with only 2 forward. And I think I'm seeing some of that now. Things have changed, as the Pubs become more desperate.