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Mystic Induction

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I'm not here to debate whether the mystic experience is a real thing that occurs, it is.

Now, there are two identified types of Mystical experience, usually defined as such:

"Mystical extrovertive experiences include consciousness of the unity of nature overlaid onto one’s sense-perception of the world, as well as non-unitive extrovertive experiences such as “cosmic consciousness.” When not extrovertive, an experience is “introvertive.” Examples include the experience of “nothingness” — an awareness lacking all differentiated content — and an awareness of God lacking sense-experiences."


Now there is some dissention between dualistic and monistic schools of thought in regards to these experiences, which I'm not looking to debate here, either.

What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?
 
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vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?

Through months or years of training (in something like meditation) maybe. But not by waving their finger at a person and making them see God.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Through months or years of training (in something like meditation) maybe. But not by waving their finger at a person and making them see God.

That's fair.

How do you suppose that works? Do you think proximity matters, say, could it be done at a distance? Or even over the internet?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?

If I understand, the mechanism is a form of Jungian transference at a very high level between master and disciple after the relationship has been established.


Screenshot_20230516_213220.jpg
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
No. You cant induce anyone. I was enlightened. I can call it a mystic experience too. Same thing. Their brought on by thought.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I'm not here to debate whether the mystic experience is a real thing that occurs, it is.

Now, there are two identified types of Mystical experience, usually defined as such:

"Mystical extrovertive experiences include consciousness of the unity of nature overlaid onto one’s sense-perception of the world, as well as non-unitive extrovertive experiences such as “cosmic consciousness.” When not extrovertive, an experience is “introvertive.” Examples include the experience of “nothingness” — an awareness lacking all differentiated content — and an awareness of God lacking sense-experiences."


Now there is some dissention between dualistic and monistic schools of thought in regards to these experiences, which I'm not looking to debate here, either.

What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?
Yes, an advanced practitioner can induce a mystical experience via their Saṃbhogakāya, which westerners might refer to as their astral body.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
If I understand, the mechanism is a form of Jungian transference at a very high level between master and disciple after the relationship has been established.


View attachment 77015

Curious
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
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mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...

What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?

As far as I can tell, no. Here is how I view it. If I use words to explain it, the experience is not in the words. The words have to be "translated" into the experience in the other person, but that is not something I can do, since I am not the other person.
In general that is so for all explanations of an experience.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
As far as I can tell, no. Here is how I view it. If I use words to explain it, the experience is not in the words. The words have to be "translated" into the experience in the other person, but that is not something I can do, since I am not the other person.
In general that is so for all explanations of an experience.

Words never capture the mystic experience, imo. I do think words can hold the keys though, so to speak. Best when combined with images of course.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I’d like to think, at some point, our brain, which is a remarkable organ, would get a few ideas on its own. Hahaha

Those ideas are still formed off the initial ideas of others, though, right?
 
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The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
It's said that Ramakrishna induced such experiences in Vivekananda (then known by the name Narendranath). However, it was not without work/practice on the recipient’s end.


"Initially Narendra did not accept Ramakrishna as his master and found him to be a "mono maniac", but eventually he became one of the closest people in his life. Ramakrishna reportedly shaped the personality of Narendranath and prepared him to dedicate his life to serve humanity"

What are your thoughts on this?
To me his "shaping of Narendranath" seems to be almost manipulative, regardless of any good Narendranath may go on to do.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
"Initially Narendra did not accept Ramakrishna as his master and found him to be a "mono maniac", but eventually he became one of the closest people in his life. Ramakrishna reportedly shaped the personality of Narendranath and prepared him to dedicate his life to serve humanity"

What are your thoughts on this?
To me his "shaping of Narendranath" seems to be almost manipulative, regardless of any good Narendranath may go on to do.
I can understand in reading this out of context how it would seem this way, but Narendra grew fond of Ramakrishna, increased his visits to Dakshineswar, and ultimately became a disciple of Ramakrishna of his own free will.

 

rocala

Well-Known Member
What I am curious about people's opinions on the matter is whether or not they think a person, we will say an advanced religious practitioner, can induce a mystic experience in another?
Sorry, I cannot give a source, it was too long ago. I once read that experiences can be induced by a practitioner but that the energy required for this usually requires the presence of others, perhaps in a ritual manner.

The reason that I remember this is that I think I have witnessed something similar. I used to attend a spiritualist group. On one occasion somebody went into a trance-like state. The description of which seems to tally with the "introvertive" state that you mentioned.

Over the years I have discussed this with others and it is certainly a recognized phenomenon, occurring with certain mediums in a group setting.
In this type of incident, I don't believe anything was willed but was simply a case of his presence in a suitable setting.

I have no doubt that for whatever reasons or causes, some form of transference did and can take place.
 
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