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My Wife said something pretty BIG to me tonight.... (All people here are welcome to read and reply)

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Greetings Folks.

I am back after 4 weeks away.

Just letting everyone know I'm around here in the world around, but in still quite a different state of mind.

It isn't taking much stimulation for me to feel like there is a lot going on.

SO for now.... I'm present and here.

Everything went really well and I had a great time.

I left with more than I came with.... and not just the books and ikons in my bag. LoL.

Peace :namaste

SageTree

Welcome back!

I'm glad it went really well, and glad to have you around again. :)
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
Hey, I just found this thread! I remembered iti mentioning that you were going to stay at a monastery. Im glad you had a good experience.

I hope all goes well with you, brother!
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
The world is a noticeably busier place.... For an understatement.

It isn't taking much for me to feel very stimulated.

I thought for starters I'd post my schedule.

Monday - Saturday

3:30 am - wake up bell

4:00 am - Midnight office, Matins, First hour
(Wed. & Fri. - Paraclesis)

7:15 am - Wed. & Sat. - Divine Liturgy
Otherwise breakfast was around this time.

8:30 am - Work period

12:00 pm - Akathis & Lunch

1:00 pm - Work period

4:00 pm - Stop work & clean yourself up
On Sat. 2:00 pm work ended for all. If desired at apt. time one could have confession.

5:00 pm - Nineth hour, Vespers

6:30 pm - Evening meal & Compline

7:15 pm - Dinner clean up, free time.

8:00 pm - 9:30 am - Great Silence.

Sunday and Festival days

6:00 am - Midnight office, Matins, First, Third and Sixth hours,
Which flowed right into 9:00 am Liturgy.

Wed. or Sat. evening before a Feast days, there would be a Vigil until 12:00 am,
And no services would start until Divine Liturgy at 9:00 am

9:00 am - Divine Liturgy

11:00 am - Communal meal with congregation

12:30 pm - Clean up, then free time.

5:00 pm - Same as week days

Lots of structure, as you can see.

I read, slept, wrote, hiked, prayed and occasionally visited a monk.
Sunday was 'internet time', for line hour each if one wanted it.
I only checked my email twice while I was there.

Silence was preferred, so there was plenty of time to work on the Jesus Prayer,
And I had noticeable fruits with that.

It's a shield against the temptation to wonder mentally,
And stray into dwelling on or fantasising/daydreaming the day away.

For now, I'll call that a post as I am leading into the more interior matters.
Good question... Maybe question will tease out some more collected thoughts.
 
Last edited:

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
So thought I would update the thread a little bit.
I haven't received any questions in the thread,
but do have some questions from 4 people who will remain anonymous,
for the sake of getting some info in the thread since there are other folks who are waiting and curious to hear some of my story.


could you explain what some of those things mean sage?

like, vespers and compline and akathis. Matins. Basically all of those words.

These are good run downs on Orthodox wiki.

Matins is the morning service.

  • There are seven types of Matins:

    Sunday Matins: the longest of the regular matins services. If this service is celebrated in its entirety it can last up to three hours. It usually contains a combination of canons taken from the Octoechos, Menaion, Triodion, and/or Pentecostarion. As a result, in parishes, abbreviations are often made. Often, this matins is part of a vigil (particularly in Slavic practice).
    Daily Matins: there is no Gospel.
    Feast-day :Matins with Gospel.

Vespers is the evening service.

  • Basic Forms
    Vespers is celebrated in three basic forms: Great Vespers, Daily Vespers, and Small Vespers.

    Great Vespers
    follows the order described above and is appointed to be served on Saturday nights and on the eves of all feasts ranked higher than Fourth Class.

    Daily Vespers is an abbreviated form of Great Vespers and is served on any day that Great Vespers is not appointed. Generally, Daily Vespers is served by a priest alone without the assistance of a deacon, although there is some variation in this practice. In such a case, the deacon's parts are completed by the priest. At Daily Vespers, the Small Entrance is usually omitted; there are fewer stikhera inserted in Lord, I have cried unto Thee; and the Litany following the prokeimenon is abbreviated and moved to follow the apolytikion. The service ends with the Little Dismissal.

    Small Vespers is appointed to be served only on days when there is to be an All-Night Vigil. Small Vespers is identical in form to Daily Vespers, but omits the Litany of Peace, the kathisma and the Small Litany that follows it, the Litany of Fervent Supplication, and the Prayer at the Bowing of the Heads. The litany that follows the apolytikion is also further abbreviated. It also has no more than 4 stichera at "Lord, I have cried", and unlike Great Vespers or Daily Vespers, the variable portions of Small Vespers are never combined from multiple sources (such as a double commemoration of the menaion, or a combination of the menaion with the octoechos).

Compline is the after dinner, before bed service.

  • Compline takes two distinct forms: Small Compline and Great Compline. The two versions are quite different in length

Akathist, basically means 'to stand', and this usually entails a composition praising/ venerating a Saint, like a lunch, or to the Mother of God, in the morning.

Compline was 30 mins.
So was the lunch time akathist
All the rest were part of other services as you can see... And ran for quite a while.

i still dont understand really.

im trying to get an idea of what you were doing there.


are those things basically like "prayer time"? Singing prayers outloud? (im not too familiar with churchy type activities lol)

were you guys like that oldschool christian chanting/singing? (not sure if you know what i mean as idk what to call it)


hunting vampires at night?

There are 'hours' off the day in which the scriptures lay put to pray, and sing psalms
So yes, those are prayer times and they are sung/chanted by the monks.

I crossed myself at appropriate times and times that a word, prayer or psalm touched me.

I rolled the wool knots, which are like the 'bead' on a prayer rope.
Orthodox use prayer ropes, that are black, because they are simple and not vanity.

In my mind I repeated the Jesus Prayer, which I said a deal about with links in a post above.

Follow the links improvised and read a little they explain a lot.

I will try to find a few services in English to post.

Eastern Orthodox Christianity is an ancient tradition, which hasn't changed a great deal since the time of the apostles. And it is part in parcel full of mystic/contemplative engagement.

While it isn't how the the word eastern is meant, it truly does however retain its 'eastern' roots.

This is not Western Christianity by a long shot.
And its very action oriented.
It's pantheistic in it explanation of union with God's energies,
And has language to outline the practice for that, which also maintains God's uniqueness in the Essence of God's being.
Energies are peace, love, charity etc.... And God its self.
Immanent and Unknowable.
They aren't scared to leave things as mysteries, but expound on the fruits of the practice.

It's simple and deep.

It speaks loudly to the eastern method and ascetic practice's I love in Buddhism,
But speaks to the part of me that is connected to something bigger,
Which I call and wasn't really free to discuss in a sangha.

So this is a good place for me to be.
That doesn't mean Buddhism still doesn't effect my life,
It just means that I am going to bring Buddha to a Christian discussion,
Instead of Jesus to a Buddhist one.

50% of the converts I met there have the same story as me.
The other half merely married in.

Let me know if this works:

Ancient faith radio: pop-out player

If it doesn't just go back to the main page and look for listening options under radio.
If you hear talk and not singing try the other link.
There is also an app to stream the music that doesn't make up much space.

Don't mind the announcements to much...
But they actually are unique insights into the theology of what it means to be of the Orthodox faith....
And it's not what the West and the media is selling as 'Christianity'....
I all fairness, I am speaking in generalities concerning the west as well.

'Saved' in a synergy of action, not just a belief.
Christ's death was more to show that our flesh is capable of much.
And there is emphasis placed on victory over death in sin, as opposed to the passion.
He set the record straight, but still requires us to have faith, but also to do something for it, besides believe alone.

I can't really capture it all, without explaining it beyond the surface.
It's a rich tradition, calling us to be what we are,
To set aside our self,
To love God,
Love our neighbour, serving God in each other,
And to reflect on how we can do better each day growing along the way.

Love isn't love unless we choose it, so there is no forcing us.
God is all merciful... But that doesn't mean we should bank on getting off the hook.
Hell isn't hell in Orthodoxy.
The flames are God's love, and the pain is our prideful self burning us.

And if you think about pride, here and now, it does burn us quite often.
Just as in it does in the dharma.

We can't know what is next, but I believe we should try to readily bring kindness and self-sacrifice into our life, that takes practice for most of us.

And I think I have finally found a way that ties my heart and mind together,
Which enlightens my soul and it shines out brightly on the world.

Hope that doesn't sound too much man,
But something deep genuinely happened to me there.

And ,maybe this is the kind of posts we'll see more of now that I have started to find verse to write it.

Ask away and I shall try to answer, one and all.
Peace.

PS. No... No vamps that I had seen... But I did have an interesting night encounter with something I can't explain.

I hadn't realized monastery life involved so much structure! When I was still giving the 'Hooka a break, I had seen you saying you were going away on FB.

Putting aside the part of me that dislikes theistic religion (I know that's not exactly what YOUR thing is), it sounds enviable in certain ways. Were it me, I'd beg the change to wander the grounds more and absorb the beauty that I'm sure was all around. I think I'd also take prayer time more contemplatively then in prayer :)
I remember not long ago feeling the need for extended quiet time with myself so me and me could work ourself out, but I've been lucky to get that recently and I feel lots better.

I think on that note I feel like I can relate with the trip and even with the need for it somewhat.

I encourage you to find that time.

The schedule was tight, but as I said, did go hiking some, and doing things like working in the garden all day pit me right in the middle of the beauty.... I can't imagine in all my years here, why I'd be suspected of not enjoying natural beauty, if that is me reading you right. There were like three acres of grass, field, buildings etc... All well landscaped. And forest and country roads all around. So dark I could see the milky way.

And I'm not going to bust you for drawing a distinction between contemplation and prayer, since this isn't thing, but just trust me when I say they all over lap and are one in the same. (Prayer, meditation, contemplation) they have different elements as their focus, but each strengthens the, while growing that aspects uniqueness. Like I said Eastern Orthodox is different.

are you still in contact with wifey? What's going on with her?

Of course.
She is working at her new job, loving the new town and doing some of her own interior work.
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
You said silence was encouraged, I think. Were there any monks who had taken complete vows of silence? Did you get to meet any? I always thought it would be profound to sit with someone who chose never to speak, if only to see what kind of vibes they give off. Could be really intense, like all their inner/godly intention is bottled up and radiates real strong, or it could be really calming, like they've pulled back and tapered off so much things that it kind of forces people around them to do the same. I dunno, was just wondering if you'd share your experiences with a silent community, or your thoughts on silence (/stoic calm[not stoicism per se..])..

and welcome back to the "real" world

I was told that at one stage a new aspirant was under a vow of silence, but the the time I got there he was 'A servant of God' and near the second week, after a year of his training he was granted a novice position.

This was a culturally, nominally religious Jewish man, who had practiced in the Thai Forest tradition for 15 years, before having some sort of miracle which brought him to Christianity. First to a less than satisfactory group of Benedictines, and then straight to the Greek Orthodox monastery where I was. He took some vows and they brought him right in, chrisimated him, and he's officially Orthodox now, working on becoming a monk.

We had a lot to discuss as you can imagine.
He's the person there I got to know the best through our similar wanderings through the Dharma, and in part, the influence it still had in our lives.
The ascetic practices and the mindfulness cross over quite easily into Orthodox mystic practice, which is to simply say All Orthodox practices, since it's not separate. As I mentioned most converts came through the 'eastern door, if you will.

There was minimal talking there. Most speak is to get work done, liturgy, or edifying speech about things that matter of a spiritual nature.

There were plenty of days I only said about 15 words.

There was profound external silence.
No phone ringing, no humming fridge, no traffic, no radio, no tv, no cursing etc...

But in THAT silence, as those sentiment fell away, there arose inner noise.
When the distractions are gone, what is in us arises...
Just like any form of meditation... after about 15 mins we start to notice it's really noisy in there.
And after just a day, it was easy to be led astray down tangents.

Mindfullness is call Watchfullness in the Orthodox tradition, but the practice is essentially the same.

This is what the Jesus Prayer is all about.
Concentration at times. Contemplation at others, and prayer in another.

It's a shield against the battering of these thoughts.
This is where the 'spiritual warfare' happens.

Bravely facing these thoughts, we stand midst the thoughts, with out shield.
The goal not to slay them, per se, but to see them, soften the blow with the shield, experience them to some degree and repel them. In time and with stronger practice we can see them. But it's enough to just stand in their midst and take a step forward when we can, penetrating the darkness, with the light of our practice.

Yes.... all sorts of stuff comes up. From sexual fantasy, the ever obvious...
To fleeing... running away... doubt, fear, questioning... hardships, pride, ego....

But so do moments of peace, quiet, joy, humility, charity, forgiveness, strength, courage....

And they too can rise out of the fog, just as easily as the 'bad'....
Bad thoughts are good ones just waiting to be see in the light of change.

Like the belt in a dark room is a snake without the proper lighting.

This practice was most of my days there.

Not deep dark thoughts maybe.... but just that being present, remember to talk rightly about good things and matters of the spirit that help each other grow. To practice using humble speak. To not be proud. To give thanks with my words.

Simply said.... resisting self-willed-egotism in all things.

Being near people who have practiced this for decades, and longer than I've been alive, in some cases, was energizing for sure.... but also humbling, greatly. How little do I really know.... :eek:

There is a Zen proverb that says, "Only speak if you an improve the silence."

And truly, in times, words were spoken that improved the silence...
Not broke the silence, per se, as I said, it was 'loud' at times inside.
Rather this speaking broke ground for the silence to grow and deepen.

So it was an honour to hear some of these Monks speak.
Fore when they do, there is so much more in their language than words.

You've never given the impression of disliking nature to me. I actually function under an assumption that everyone loves natural beauty if they take enough time from their day to see it. Just, when I read about the schedule and all that was on it, I didn't see where you'd have time. I'm still trying to banish my preconceptions of monastery life here, c'mon! :p

I thought as much, just checking. ;)

Like I said, hikes and all... surrounded by nature, it was easy to be outside without 'going' to walk in it... it was in the country, very silent. To be there was to be present in nature.

In the early morning there were cool breezes, peeper frogs and crickets babbling, you could hear them in the open windows of the church and out the windows in the evening. Owls in the forest, who-WHOing in the mid-night.

Bees that hummed like a symphony tuning up, while working the the garden.
The stillness, where you could hear blades of grass rustle in the breeze.

The work wasn't separate from the peace of nature. It was all one.
Work was play. Play was prayer. Prayer was meditation. Meditation was being present....

And there was a lot to stand in the middle of and be absorbed into.

It wasn't a dichotomous time, really.

Once on a feast day, in the afternoon I took an extended walk with the Novice, but while we were enjoying the country side, we also enjoyed each other's company, and talked of deeper matters.

All things were done prayerfully....

So to 'get away' from it all, would be missing the point.

Our life is our Testement, our Gospel, the Mission which we preach.

Simply through our being.
And it happens whether we think about it or not.

Actions are louder than words, always.

So if we are centered in the meaning of that Gospel, which literally means truth, we can better radiate the connectedness we experience, and share that with others.

And it's my belief that when we live intentionally connected to the world around us, to others, love and compassion beings to grow and bloom naturally.

So being connected to the truth of our life. I feel, is to preach, which is to act with, in and through love and compassion.


And in the words of a Saint:

"Preach the Gospel always, and when needed, use words"

In the monastery we meditate on the Truths that promote live giving energy into the world, and they so happen to find word for that Truth in the Christian Bible.

I'll save the expounding on the literal translations of certain buzz words.
I tried to boil it down a bit for you.

But simply said... living heedless isn't life giving.
Being aware we falter and striving to do better for our self and others it life giving.

And simply said, it's held that Jesus taught and lived a way of Life, not Death.

And like I said... I'm going to just share it how it happened, more or less.
So don't feel I'm preaching, please and search for the meaning of what I'm saying behind some of the buzzier words.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thank you for sharing this. (I couldn't) I think it'll be helpful for anyone considering a more contemplative lifestyle.
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Thank you for sharing this. (I couldn't) I think it'll be helpful for anyone considering a more contemplative lifestyle.


Sure thing. I pray it made sense, and didn't just make me sound crazy. :D

"Couldn't share", if you feel brave enough to say why, I'd be interested.
Maybe I would like to consider how candid I need to be?



And I agree, I pray that this will be of some use to some one else.
I experienced it, ya know? And I've written in a journal about it.
So, here is to hoping I wasn't just typing hot air!



Without a doubt I'd go back for another month in a heart beat.
But I have the other person in this agreement to talk to first. :)

Gone in July, away in August, and reunited on Sept 27....

Right now just coming back slowly at my Mom's.
Definitely feeling less 'far out' than when I got back.


I will be honest here, since I obviously have no shut off valve.
But I will share it because I think there are lots of people who try to enter into spirituality through and with drugs solely, not expecting to have to DO anything for it, even with the substances... like an escalator to heaven.... not even taking the stairs so to speak.


An acid trip is what I have to liken this all to, minus the actual LSD.

I knew at times it'd be scary, amazing,adrenaline-filled, taxing, beautiful, thoughtful, calm, quite, daunting, and haunting, glorious and god-awful.... ups and down, ins and out.... good and bad thoughts.... insightful times and moments where it an enigma.... swimming in the unexplained.

But like a trip... I knew it'd be over at some point... much longer than 8 hours later :eek:,
but that at some point I'd be able to step back and see it all differently.

What I didn't expect was that it'd feel like that day after for about a week.
Sort of an illuminated haze, a bright light in the fog, shining but more blinding.
Everything felt like 'too much'.... being around people talking was strange.

I don't mean to be course in that likening, but I don't know what else to compare it to.

It was almost the same in more ways than I can state here on the boards.

But I'll add I even had tracers off the candles in the morning, from the blurred vision of 3:30am


To some degree, I am glad that is what it felt like.

It was a familiar feeling of inspiration, from years back when it was being used in a highly spiritual intention...
But this was more authentic because well... there was no drug, obviously.
And well... maybe not as 'insane'... but the 'intense' without a doubt.
There were some very indescribable moments, ones that in verse sound crazy.
Just like the altered drug state.

That resting in the unknown and expectantly waiting feeling is what I'd call it.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
jai jai ,

thank you , for taking the time to give us your accounts sounds like a prety amazing (natural )shift in conciousness :) ....

namaskaram :namaste
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
"Couldn't share", if you feel brave enough to say why, I'd be interested.
Maybe I would like to consider how candid I need to be?

Sacred is secret and secret is sacred in my tradition. So it's not that I couldn't share, more I wouldn't. The external stuff, sure ... but the inner personal stuff ... only with Guru. Not all Hindus are like this, and many do share.

So I hope your writings are of help to someone.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I was told that at one stage a new aspirant was under a vow of silence, but the the time I got there he was 'A servant of God' and near the second week, after a year of his training he was granted a novice position.

This was a culturally, nominally religious Jewish man, who had practiced in the Thai Forest tradition for 15 years, before having some sort of miracle which brought him to Christianity. First to a less than satisfactory group of Benedictines, and then straight to the Greek Orthodox monastery where I was. He took some vows and they brought him right in, chrisimated him, and he's officially Orthodox now, working on becoming a monk.

We had a lot to discuss as you can imagine.
He's the person there I got to know the best through our similar wanderings through the Dharma, and in part, the influence it still had in our lives.
The ascetic practices and the mindfulness cross over quite easily into Orthodox mystic practice, which is to simply say All Orthodox practices, since it's not separate. As I mentioned most converts came through the 'eastern door, if you will.

There was minimal talking there. Most speak is to get work done, liturgy, or edifying speech about things that matter of a spiritual nature.

There were plenty of days I only said about 15 words.

There was profound external silence.
No phone ringing, no humming fridge, no traffic, no radio, no tv, no cursing etc...

But in THAT silence, as those sentiment fell away, there arose inner noise.
When the distractions are gone, what is in us arises...
Just like any form of meditation... after about 15 mins we start to notice it's really noisy in there.
And after just a day, it was easy to be led astray down tangents.

Mindfullness is call Watchfullness in the Orthodox tradition, but the practice is essentially the same.

This is what the Jesus Prayer is all about.
Concentration at times. Contemplation at others, and prayer in another.

It's a shield against the battering of these thoughts.
This is where the 'spiritual warfare' happens.

Bravely facing these thoughts, we stand midst the thoughts, with out shield.
The goal not to slay them, per se, but to see them, soften the blow with the shield, experience them to some degree and repel them. In time and with stronger practice we can see them. But it's enough to just stand in their midst and take a step forward when we can, penetrating the darkness, with the light of our practice.

Yes.... all sorts of stuff comes up. From sexual fantasy, the ever obvious...
To fleeing... running away... doubt, fear, questioning... hardships, pride, ego....

But so do moments of peace, quiet, joy, humility, charity, forgiveness, strength, courage....

And they too can rise out of the fog, just as easily as the 'bad'....
Bad thoughts are good ones just waiting to be see in the light of change.

Like the belt in a dark room is a snake without the proper lighting.

This practice was most of my days there.

Not deep dark thoughts maybe.... but just that being present, remember to talk rightly about good things and matters of the spirit that help each other grow. To practice using humble speak. To not be proud. To give thanks with my words.

Simply said.... resisting self-willed-egotism in all things.

Being near people who have practiced this for decades, and longer than I've been alive, in some cases, was energizing for sure.... but also humbling, greatly. How little do I really know.... :eek:

There is a Zen proverb that says, "Only speak if you an improve the silence."

And truly, in times, words were spoken that improved the silence...
Not broke the silence, per se, as I said, it was 'loud' at times inside.
Rather this speaking broke ground for the silence to grow and deepen.

So it was an honour to hear some of these Monks speak.
Fore when they do, there is so much more in their language than words.



I thought as much, just checking. ;)

Like I said, hikes and all... surrounded by nature, it was easy to be outside without 'going' to walk in it... it was in the country, very silent. To be there was to be present in nature.

In the early morning there were cool breezes, peeper frogs and crickets babbling, you could hear them in the open windows of the church and out the windows in the evening. Owls in the forest, who-WHOing in the mid-night.

Bees that hummed like a symphony tuning up, while working the the garden.
The stillness, where you could hear blades of grass rustle in the breeze.

The work wasn't separate from the peace of nature. It was all one.
Work was play. Play was prayer. Prayer was meditation. Meditation was being present....

And there was a lot to stand in the middle of and be absorbed into.

It wasn't a dichotomous time, really.

Once on a feast day, in the afternoon I took an extended walk with the Novice, but while we were enjoying the country side, we also enjoyed each other's company, and talked of deeper matters.

All things were done prayerfully....

So to 'get away' from it all, would be missing the point.

Our life is our Testement, our Gospel, the Mission which we preach.

Simply through our being.
And it happens whether we think about it or not.

Actions are louder than words, always.

So if we are centered in the meaning of that Gospel, which literally means truth, we can better radiate the connectedness we experience, and share that with others.

And it's my belief that when we live intentionally connected to the world around us, to others, love and compassion beings to grow and bloom naturally.

So being connected to the truth of our life. I feel, is to preach, which is to act with, in and through love and compassion.


And in the words of a Saint:

"Preach the Gospel always, and when needed, use words"

In the monastery we meditate on the Truths that promote live giving energy into the world, and they so happen to find word for that Truth in the Christian Bible.

I'll save the expounding on the literal translations of certain buzz words.
I tried to boil it down a bit for you.

But simply said... living heedless isn't life giving.
Being aware we falter and striving to do better for our self and others it life giving.

And simply said, it's held that Jesus taught and lived a way of Life, not Death.

And like I said... I'm going to just share it how it happened, more or less.
So don't feel I'm preaching, please and search for the meaning of what I'm saying behind some of the buzzier words.
My friend, I just have to tell you this touches me deeply. What you speak of is beautiful, true, and abiding.

I've never had an official monastic experience, though I have often said in another life I would have been a monk. Perhaps an extended retreat will be something in my life to come, yet.

I was just reading this a few nights ago before seeing your thread here for the first time. It came to mind as I read what you wrote. I hope it may have some value to you. It's from the book, Living Buddha, Living Christ, by Thich Nhat Hanh,

"St. Gregory of Nyssa taught that the contemplative life is heavenly and cannot be lived in the world, that whenever a monk has to leave the monastery to do some apostolic work, he must lament. Many monks do in fact cry when they have to leave their monasteries for an apostolic ministry. Other teachers, like St. Basil, said that is it possible to pray as you work. But he did not mean that we can pray with our actions. He meant pray with our mouths and our hearts. In Vietnam, we invented "engaged Buddhism" so we could continue our contemplative life while in the midst of helping the victims of war. There must be ways for monks to continue their contemplative lives while engaging in society. In Vietnam, we did not try to avoid the suffering. We worked to relieve the suffering while, at the same time, trying to maintain our mindfulness."​

As I read you speak of how in everything you do you maintain "watchfulness" or mindfulness, in cooking, cleaning, eating, and every activity, so it is to engage in the world, but not be 'of the world'. To me that means we can enter the currents of the river as we need to, but our lives are not simply trying to maintain within the currents as is the normal state. Rather we enter without ever being fully drawn into it and away from that world beyond the stream. I feel this is what it means to be "In the world, but not of the world". Our kingdom is not of this world, as we know it in ourselves, being aware of that, and that living within us.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Dear Brother Sage,

Sorry for not replying quickly, I've been so busy! :angel2: The first question I want to ask, to catch up with your life, is this...

You note that you left with more than you came with but did you leave with a new found certainty in your vocation and the way in which you feel the Holy Spirit is directing your life?

In other words, is monastic life for you - or do you think that another form of contemplative life might suit you better? (After all, there are as many paths as there are people...)

I always think that vocation is intimately tied to who we are in God's eyes. I think that each one of us was known to God from all eternity, in Himself. From all eternity, God has had this "Idea" of who we are and he created our soul according to that "idea" he had of us. However we have the freewill to search for the fullness of our selfhood in God or turn the other way and "form" ourselves in our own man-made "image" rather than the one God has of us.

The best biblical metaphor for this "Vocation" to which each person is called, is the white stone mentioned in the Book of Revelation, with a new name written upon it - known only to the one who receives it, given to the "one who overcomes (Revelation 2:17).

There was this great Scottish mystic called George MacDonald (1824-1905). He wrote a mystical tract on this very passage of Revelation that I think gives one much to ponder:

http://www.anamcharabooks.com/pdfs/978-1-937211-19-6.pdf

An excerpt:


To the one who offers unto this God of the living the own
self of sacrifice, to the one who overcomes, the one who has

brought the individual life back to its source,
this one of the Father’s making, God gives the white stone. To the one who
climbs on the stair of all the God-born efforts and Godgiven
victories up to the height of individual being—that of
looking face to face upon the ideal self in the bosom of the
Father—the
self God created, realized in that person through



the Father’s love in the Elder Brother’s devotion—to that
person God gives the new name written on the white stone.

It is only when the person has become the name that God
gives the stone with the name upon it, for only then can the
person understand what that name signifies. It is the blossom,
the perfection, the completion, that determines the
name; and God foresees that from the first, because God
made it so; but the tree of the soul, before its blossom comes,
cannot understand what blossom it is to bear, and could not
know what the word meant, which, in representing its own

unarrived completeness, named itself.

God’s name for a person must then be the expression in a
mystical word—a word of that language which all who have
overcome understand—of God’s own idea of the person, that
being whom God had in mind when God began to make the
child, and whom God kept in mind through the long process
of creation that went to realize the idea.

The true name is one which expresses the character, the
nature, the being, the
meaning of the person who bears it. It is



the person’s own symbol—the soul’s picture, in a word—the
sign which belongs to that person and to no one else. Who
can give a person this name? God alone.

And for each God has a different response. With every person
God has a secret—the secret of the new name. In every
person there is a loneliness, an inner chamber of peculiar life
into which God only can enter. I say not it is


the innermost
chamber

—but a chamber into which no brother, nay, no sister
can come.

From this it follows that there is a chamber also—(O God,
humble and accept my speech)—a chamber in God into
which none can enter but the one, the individual, the peculiar
person—out of which chamber that person has to bring
revelation and strength for others.



This is that for which each person was made—
By creation, then,

each person is isolated with God.

to reveal the secret things of the Father.

Each of us is a distinct flower or tree in the spiritual garden of
God—precious, each for our own sake, in the eyes of the One
who is even now making us—each of us watered and shone
upon and filled with life, for the sake of our flower, our completed
being, which will blossom out of each of us at last to
the glory and pleasure of the great Gardener. Each is growing
toward the revelation of that secret to ourselves, and so to
the full reception, according to our measure, of the divine.
Every moment that we are true to our true selves, some new
shine of the white stone breaks on our inward eyes, some
fresh channel is opened upward for the coming glory of the
flower, the conscious offering of our whole being in beauty
to the Maker.



Each of us has within us a secret of the Divinity


As St. Catherine of Siena said, "Be who God meant you to be and you will set the world on fire".

That is all I wish to say at the moment (I know its simple :) )

 
Last edited:

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Vouthon and others...

I haven't forgotten the thread... just getting back home and re-situated.
 
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