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My views on LHP

technomage

Finding my own way
OK, let me in advance apologize if this is not terribly clear. I'm having a bit of a rough day with the fibromyalgia, so coherence isn't my strong suit. The LHP/RHP dichotomy as I use the terms comes more from the Western Occult Tradition than from Tantra or Hinduism.

LHP and RHP are opposites. One of the most obvious examples is that RHP works within traditionalism, while LHP is iconoclastic. RHP looks to a community-orientation, LHP looks to a self-orientation. Other opposites include cooperation-competition, creation-destruction, even the overly simplified light-dark axis.

RHP/LHP is not, in and of itself, an axis of opposites. Rather, it is a method of categorization, and as such is a reification of reality--but it must be remembered that the map is not the territory.

For my own view, emphasis solely on LHP or on RHP is out of balance. Yes, it's all well and good to revere life, but life without death would rapidly become very unhealthy.

Sorry ... as I said, it's not very coherent. Probably time for me to head to bed.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
OK, let me in advance apologize if this is not terribly clear. I'm having a bit of a rough day with the fibromyalgia, so coherence isn't my strong suit. The LHP/RHP dichotomy as I use the terms comes more from the Western Occult Tradition than from Tantra or Hinduism.

LHP and RHP are opposites. One of the most obvious examples is that RHP works within traditionalism, while LHP is iconoclastic. RHP looks to a community-orientation, LHP looks to a self-orientation. Other opposites include cooperation-competition, creation-destruction, even the overly simplified light-dark axis.

RHP/LHP is not, in and of itself, an axis of opposites. Rather, it is a method of categorization, and as such is a reification of reality--but it must be remembered that the map is not the territory.

For my own view, emphasis solely on LHP or on RHP is out of balance. Yes, it's all well and good to revere life, but life without death would rapidly become very unhealthy.

Sorry ... as I said, it's not very coherent. Probably time for me to head to bed.

From what I got out of it, it sounds like a yin and yang scenario here. Would you say that's accurate?

I do believe the opposites you listed were nearly on spot, if not completely. I'd like to add another: God dependent, and self dependent. This doesn't mean LHP is strictly atheistic, but I think it is strictly a way to goals without depending on the Working Higher.

Personally, but only personally because I'm unsure if it applies to others, RHP looks to preserving the sanctity of the environment, while LHP looks to altering it, glitch it, however you want to call it (magically speaking anyway).
 

technomage

Finding my own way
From what I got out of it, it sounds like a yin and yang scenario here. Would you say that's accurate?

Absolutely spot on ... including the concept that yang contains elements of yin, and vice versa.

I do believe the opposites you listed were nearly on spot, if not completely. I'd like to add another: God dependent, and self dependent. This doesn't mean LHP is strictly atheistic, but I think it is strictly a way to goals without depending on the Working Higher.

Possibly, but not definitely. If I had to arrange secular humanism on the RHP/LHP paradigm, I'd call it an RHP path.

Personally, but only personally because I'm unsure if it applies to others, RHP looks to preserving the sanctity of the environment, while LHP looks to altering it, glitch it, however you want to call it (magically speaking anyway).

Hmmm ... possibly. It sounds good, but I'd probably have to wait for a full night's sleep and a cup of coffee before I really dive into an analysis like that. :)
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Absolutely spot on ... including the concept that yang contains elements of yin, and vice versa.
Yep, Religious branches on both sides of the coin draw a bit from each other. Just as much so as they condition each other.


Possibly, but not definitely. If I had to arrange secular humanism on the RHP/LHP paradigm, I'd call it an RHP path.

I agree. But, although they are atheistic, they are dependent on something greater: community.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
You've just restated what you said in the other thread - adding more of these "axis" to it - without explaining how you assign which attributes to each group.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Where do you get that from, the latest movies? You still haven't explained anything at all. Maybe people like SSE want to tear down things, but usually it's the right hand path destroying things - culture, history, ego, individuality, etc. Meanwhile, groups like the Luciferians strive for a more united and evolved world, try to expand on our philosophies, things of that nature.

It's like you watched a YouTube preacher rant about satanism, interviewed a high school laveyan, and decided to sum up the L/RHP.
 

technomage

Finding my own way
You still haven't explained anything at all.
I haven't explained in any sense you agree with. That's fine. As my title says, I'm finding my own way, and it works for me. I'm not going to delude myself to even suggest that it may work for you, or for SSE, or for anybody else.

And I'm cool with that. Just as I'm totally cool with you disagreeing. :)
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I haven't explained in any sense you agree with. That's fine. As my title says, I'm finding my own way, and it works for me. I'm not going to delude myself to even suggest that it may work for you, or for SSE, or for anybody else.

And I'm cool with that. Just as I'm totally cool with you disagreeing. :)

No, you are making - what seem to me like - random claims and not supporting them.

If I say, "I think statement statement statement" then I am not explaining anything to you. You are not giving examples, scenerios, reason, ANYTHING that constitutes as an explanation.

RHP = ______ and LHP _______ blank provides no explanation, it is simply a statement. You said you were going to explain yourself which you obviously have no intent in doing.

When did we toss out DIR rules anyways? Why are you here? I'm starting to think you are simply trolling the DIR.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
If you think that, report the post, or send forum feedback to the moderators. :shrug: But last I knew, I was not answerable to you.

So you won't explain anything then? Just created the thread to declare random things about the L/RHP for no apparent reason?
 

technomage

Finding my own way
So you won't explain anything then? Just created the thread to declare random things about the L/RHP for no apparent reason?
You do realize that this is the first actual question you've asked, don't you? And that, even at that, your questions are rhetorical, and are questions about my motives, rather than questions about what I've presented?

TDoP, I'm willing to explain what I'm talking about to the best of my ability. I am not, however, willing to put up with demands that my explanations conform to your expectations, nor am I willing to pay attention or respect posts consisting solely of sarcastic derision.

Much of my views on LHP/RHP are ... non-verbal, experiential, and rather numinous, even to me ... and that's still true even after almost three decades of being Wiccan, and almost two decades of trying to find my own "Middle Path." I can see what I'm trying to understand, but it's like trying to explain the rainbow while speaking a language that has no words for colors.

Currently, I don't HAVE words to explain it as you're wanting it to be explained. In part, that's what I'm hoping this thread will be--a way for me to try to translate, even if it's just in my own head, what I'm seeing into something more understandable.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I really don't see it your way at all, technomage. I agree with Doors in that you really haven't explained why you think that way about it.

I see the LHP has the way of self-directed Becoming into a person of greater self-realization and greater individuation, where the RHP is typically the way towards submission, absorption, dissolution and unity toward/with something deemed greater than oneself. Simply put, the LHP is an umbrella term for a group of philosophies and religions that are Self-worshiping, Self-nurturing and Self-evolving.
 

technomage

Finding my own way
I really don't see it your way at all, technomage. I agree with Doors in that you really haven't explained why you think that way about it.

I see the LHP has the way of self-directed Becoming into a person of greater self-realization and greater individuation, where the RHP is typically the way towards submission, absorption, dissolution and unity toward/with something deemed greater than oneself. Simply put, the LHP is an umbrella term for a group of philosophies and religions that are Self-worshiping, Self-nurturing and Self-evolving.

I can see that ... but from where I sit, it's not so simple. There are RHP paths that are more concerned with self-actualization, and there are LHP paths that work with self-negation. But most (I'd say "all," but I haven't studied every single religion out there) paths combine aspects of self-actualization and self-negation.

But as for whether I'm "right" or "wrong" in my views ... I don't comprehend what I'm seeing well enough to make that evaluation. As for explaining my views, I don't understand them very well--perhaps I don't understand what I'm seeing at all.

I didn't start this thread to tell everybody how it is. I started this thread to explore what I'm conceptualizing and see if it's even workable. But the more I try to explain it ... it's like holding onto a fist-full of sand. The harder I grasp the sand, the more it slips away.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I can see that ... but from where I sit, it's not so simple. There are RHP paths that are more concerned with self-actualization, and there are LHP paths that work with self-negation. But most (I'd say "all," but I haven't studied every single religion out there) paths combine aspects of self-actualization and self-negation.

But as for whether I'm "right" or "wrong" in my views ... I don't comprehend what I'm seeing well enough to make that evaluation. As for explaining my views, I don't understand them very well--perhaps I don't understand what I'm seeing at all.

I didn't start this thread to tell everybody how it is. I started this thread to explore what I'm conceptualizing and see if it's even workable. But the more I try to explain it ... it's like holding onto a fist-full of sand. The harder I grasp the sand, the more it slips away.

Which Western LHP paths encourage negation of Self?

When Hinduism talks about self-realization, it doesn't completely mean the same thing I do.
 

technomage

Finding my own way
Which Western LHP paths encourage negation of Self?

Thelema, for one. Crossing Da'ath is achieved by obliterating the self.

When Hinduism talks about self-realization, it doesn't completely mean the same thing I do.
As I said, I'm not referring to the Hindu ideas, though of course there is at least some influence from Hinduism as that is the major source of the term.
 

technomage

Finding my own way
Thelema isn't really considered LHP, especially not its goal.
Eh, depends on whose doing the consideration.

That's part of the problem of communicating--the dividing line between RHP and LHP is subjective, the terms are multivalent, and the definitions are slippery.
 
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