My tremendous thread about planting trees

[robocop (actually)]

My stupendous thread about planting trees:

Donald Trump told the world he wants to plant 1.2 trillion trees:

Trump cautions Davos against heeding ‘prophets of doom’ on climate change

It is said to cost $300 billion and cancel the CO2 from the last ten years, so is this true?

I don't claim to be a scientist capable of figuring out exactly, but I can show that these numbers are close.

A tree absorbs 55 g of CO2 per day.

How much CO2 is there?

Interestingly,

In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons (15.1 trillion pounds) of carbon dioxide equivalents. This total represents a 7 percent increase since 1990 but a 7 percent decrease since 2005.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

It was about 10 billion metric tons last year and 7 billion metric tons ten years ago.

So our calculation is:

85 trillion kg/10 yrs / 1.2 trillion trees / 3650 days/10 yrs =??= 0.055 kg.

This is 0.019 vs 0.055 kg so this figure is reasonable/ less than a factor of 3.

If you convert atomic weights from C to CO2, or even C to other C-molecules, it becomes even closer.

Is there enough room to plant 1.2 trillion trees?

Planting 1.2 Trillion Trees Could Cancel Out a Decade of CO2 Emissions, Scientists Find

There is enough room in the world’s existing parks, forests, and abandoned land to plant 1.2 trillion additional trees, which would have the CO2 storage capacity to cancel out a decade of carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new analysis by ecologist Thomas Crowther and colleagues at ETH Zurich, a Swiss university.

would it really cost $300 billion?

Google how much does it cost to plant a tree.

$.10/tree - $20/tree.

That's $120 billion - $2.4 trillion. And it's said to cost $300 billion!

 

[ChristineM]

Just protect the rainforests from devastating tree felling and finance a fire service as needed.


And planting more will help.

 

[Heyo]

My stupendous thread about planting trees:

Donald Trump told the world he wants to plant 1.2 trillion trees:

Trump cautions Davos against heeding ‘prophets of doom’ on climate change

It is said to cost $300 billion and cancel the CO2 from the last ten years, so is this true?

I don't claim to be a scientist capable of figuring out exactly, but I can show that these numbers are close.

A tree absorbs 55 g of CO2 per day.

How much CO2 is there?

Interestingly,

In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons (15.1 trillion pounds) of carbon dioxide equivalents. This total represents a 7 percent increase since 1990 but a 7 percent decrease since 2005.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

It was about 10 billion metric tons last year and 7 billion metric tons ten years ago.

So our calculation is:

85 trillion kg/10 yrs / 1.2 trillion trees / 3650 days/10 yrs =??= 0.055 kg.

This is 0.019 vs 0.055 kg so this figure is reasonable/ less than a factor of 3.

If you convert atomic weights from C to CO2, or even C to other C-molecules, it becomes even closer.

Is there enough room to plant 1.2 trillion trees?

Planting 1.2 Trillion Trees Could Cancel Out a Decade of CO2 Emissions, Scientists Find

There is enough room in the world’s existing parks, forests, and abandoned land to plant 1.2 trillion additional trees, which would have the CO2 storage capacity to cancel out a decade of carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new analysis by ecologist Thomas Crowther and colleagues at ETH Zurich, a Swiss university.

would it really cost $300 billion?

Google how much does it cost to plant a tree.

$.10/tree - $20/tree.

That's $120 billion - $2.4 trillion. And it's said to cost $300 billion!

Just remember that you have to keep on planting if you keep on producing CO2. Trees are no carbon sink, they are just buffers. Just plant a new tree whenever you have driven 100 miles - and keep on doing it as long as you keep on driving. How long can you do that before you have to plant trees where there are now roads?

 

[robocop (actually)]

"There is enough room in the world’s existing parks, forests, and abandoned land to plant 1.2 trillion additional trees, which would have the CO2 storage capacity to cancel out a decade of carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new analysis by ecologist Thomas Crowther and colleagues at ETH Zurich, a Swiss university."

Planting 1.2 Trillion Trees Could Cancel Out a Decade of CO2 Emissions, Scientists Find

Yeah, this seems to be temporary, but much better than nothing.

 

[David1967]

Just protect the rainforests from devastating tree felling and finance a fire service as needed.


And planting more will help.

Good point. With the Amazon being deforested and burned, we better start planting trees somewhere else to make up for that devastating problem. The Amazon rainforest is not called the "lungs of the world" for nothing. Funny that we will deploy troops to protect oil interests, but not to protect the very air we breathe.

 

[columbus]

It is said to cost $300 billion and cancel the CO2 from the last ten years, so is this true?

I don't claim to be a scientist capable of figuring out exactly, but I can show that these numbers are close.

A tree absorbs 55 g of CO2 per day.

I definitely agree that reforestation projects are a great thing.
However, you don't seem to grasp the dynamic nature of the issue here.
Planting a one dollar seedling, while cutting down a 300 year old sequoia, is a losing game.
Driving into the countryside to plant 50 one dollar seedlings, 3 of which survive for more than two years, will put more co2 into the atmosphere than the trees will absorb in the next ten years.

A much more efficient method would be to ban cutting naturally planted trees, and letting natural places regenerate by preventing people from turning the forests into crop/grazing land. Brazil tried that, the results weren't pretty.

We, the human race, are up against The Cold Equations*. Feel good solutions like "Let's plant some trees" aren't going to put much dent in the real issue. Which is too many people who want to consume the earth's resources.
Tom

*The Cold Equations is a story by Isaac Asimov from the 60s. It's definitely worth a read.

 

[ChristineM]

Good point. With the Amazon being deforested and burned, we better start planting trees somewhere else to make up for that devastating problem. The Amazon rainforest is not called the "lungs of the world" for nothing. Funny that we will deploy troops to protect oil interests, but not to protect the very air we breathe.

I dont finance troops but i do use oil and feel a little guilty at the need for it so i bought 100 (actually 40 hectares) acres of Amazon rain forest. Its now privately owned land, no logging allowed. It helps offset the fuel i use.

 

[Audie]

My stupendous thread about planting trees:

Donald Trump told the world he wants to plant 1.2 trillion trees:

Trump cautions Davos against heeding ‘prophets of doom’ on climate change

It is said to cost $300 billion and cancel the CO2 from the last ten years, so is this true?

I don't claim to be a scientist capable of figuring out exactly, but I can show that these numbers are close.

A tree absorbs 55 g of CO2 per day.

How much CO2 is there?

Interestingly,

In 2014, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,870 million metric tons (15.1 trillion pounds) of carbon dioxide equivalents. This total represents a 7 percent increase since 1990 but a 7 percent decrease since 2005.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

It was about 10 billion metric tons last year and 7 billion metric tons ten years ago.

So our calculation is:

85 trillion kg/10 yrs / 1.2 trillion trees / 3650 days/10 yrs =??= 0.055 kg.

This is 0.019 vs 0.055 kg so this figure is reasonable/ less than a factor of 3.

If you convert atomic weights from C to CO2, or even C to other C-molecules, it becomes even closer.

Is there enough room to plant 1.2 trillion trees?

Planting 1.2 Trillion Trees Could Cancel Out a Decade of CO2 Emissions, Scientists Find

There is enough room in the world’s existing parks, forests, and abandoned land to plant 1.2 trillion additional trees, which would have the CO2 storage capacity to cancel out a decade of carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new analysis by ecologist Thomas Crowther and colleagues at ETH Zurich, a Swiss university.

would it really cost $300 billion?

Google how much does it cost to plant a tree.

$.10/tree - $20/tree.

That's $120 billion - $2.4 trillion. And it's said to cost $300 billion!

Trees come in different sizes.
So how much carbon do they absorb?

Some like maple, drop a seed, and
you will get a tree. Cheap.

 

[columbus]

Its now privately owned land, no logging allowed.

Are you there, to be sure your property rights aren't being violated by corrupt local officials?
They've got families to feed too, you know.
Tom

 

[ChristineM]

Are you there, to be sure your property rights aren't being violated by corrupt local officials?
They've got families to feed too, you know.
Tom

I have never seen the land so i must trust the agent who checks out as reputable.

The area is uninhabited so the only action for hundreds of miles is logging.

A vast tract is off limits to logging. Its not much in the scheme of things but (i hope) it helps

 

[columbus]

I have never seen the land so i must trust the agent who checks out as reputable.

The area is uninhabited so the only action for hundreds of miles is logging.

A vast tract is off limits to logging. Its not much in the scheme of things but (i hope) it helps

Not that I'm dissing your efforts.
But a big part of the problem Brazil had is that government corruption is huge. Public policies and absentee owners set the stage for even more corruption.

Because they didn't take into account the reality for the people on the ground. It's similar to the problem with African poachers. Push the price of ivory high enough, and poor dudes trying to survive will shoot an elephant because a pair of tusks will feed them and their families for years.
Tom

 

[metis]

If I plant any more trees and shrubs in my yard, I'd hafta plant them on the roof of my home and garage. Friends have accused me of planting so much so as to hide from my wife-- but I will deny this, of course.

IOW, I have long believed that we need to do this, and we need to do it NOW!

 

[ChristineM]

Not that I'm dissing your efforts.
But a big part of the problem Brazil had is that government corruption is huge. Public policies and absentee owners set the stage for even more corruption.

Because they didn't take into account the reality for the people on the ground. It's similar to the problem with African poachers. Push the price of ivory high enough, and poor dudes trying to survive will shoot an elephant because a pair of tusks will feed them and their families for years.
Tom

Oh i know and agree, we did research thoroughly and guarantees were included in the sale. Of course if may all go **** over elbow, its a risk i am willing to take.

 

[columbus]

Oh i know and agree, we did research thoroughly and guarantees were included in the sale. Of course if may all go **** over elbow, its a risk i am willing to take.

Like I said, I value your efforts.

But rather like the tower of ivory that got torched a few years back. To me, a more sensible use of already "harvested" ivory would be to flood the market and use the fundage to create more opportunities for poor people in Africa to do something more gainful than poach. And hire more, better paid, game wardens to prevent future poaching.
Instead, they incentivized poachers.

What's with that?
Tom

 

[Subduction Zone]

Planting trees is not really the answer. The Yale study may be flawed. Saplings take out very little CO2. It is not until a tree grows a bit that it can really start to store CO2. And as others have pointed out they are buffers at best.

But planting trees is not totally a waste of time. It does serve one very useful function. It increases awareness. A problem cannot be solved if people are not aware of it and still today far too many people deny the threat of AGW. Once we get our ever increasing fossil fuel addiction under control trees may help mitigate AGW. Right now planting them only slightly lowers the rate of increase in temperatures.

 

[Heyo]

Like I said, I value your efforts.

But rather like the tower of ivory that got torched a few years back. To me, a more sensible use of already "harvested" ivory would be to flood the market and use the fundage to create more opportunities for poor people in Africa to do something more gainful than poach. And hire more, better paid, game wardens to prevent future poaching.
Instead, they incentivized poachers.

What's with that?
Tom

Supply drives demand. And when the ivory is used to pay the rangers they have an incentive to let the poachers do their job and then harvest the ivory from them.
At least that is the rational behind the burning. I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense.

 

[ChristineM]

Like I said, I value your efforts.

But rather like the tower of ivory that got torched a few years back. To me, a more sensible use of already "harvested" ivory would be to flood the market and use the fundage to create more opportunities for poor people in Africa to do something more gainful than poach. And hire more, better paid, game wardens to prevent future poaching.
Instead, they incentivized poachers.

What's with that?
Tom

Although your approach to ivory poaching has merit we are talking trees, forest an an uninhabited area of Brazil

 

[columbus]

Supply drives demand. And when the ivory is used to pay the rangers they have an incentive to let the poachers do their job and then harvest the ivory from them.
At least that is the rational behind the burning. I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense.

I don't claim to have a simple solution to the huge problem of humans making choices that benefit them, personally, in the short term while causing long term damage to the human family. I believe that our lack of that ability to be that rational is why the human race is headed for destruction.

But I can point out this.
If all the people who sincerely believe that God Himself was born, crucified, and rose from the dead, and Said, "What you do for the Least you do for Me"
put more money and time into caring about the Least than their cars and clothes and investments and such, we would be living in The Kingdom of God.

But that isn't happening. Too bad Jesus wasn't more persuasive. The rich man and Lazarus appears to be written directly to modern western Christendom, but they aren't any more interested than 1st century Jews.
Tom

 

[robocop (actually)]

I definitely agree that reforestation projects are a great thing.
However, you don't seem to grasp the dynamic nature of the issue here.
Planting a one dollar seedling, while cutting down a 300 year old sequoia, is a losing game.
Driving into the countryside to plant 50 one dollar seedlings, 3 of which survive for more than two years, will put more co2 into the atmosphere than the trees will absorb in the next ten years.

A much more efficient method would be to ban cutting naturally planted trees, and letting natural places regenerate by preventing people from turning the forests into crop/grazing land. Brazil tried that, the results weren't pretty.

We, the human race, are up against The Cold Equations*. Feel good solutions like "Let's plant some trees" aren't going to put much dent in the real issue. Which is too many people who want to consume the earth's resources.
Tom

*The Cold Equations is a story by Isaac Asimov from the 60s. It's definitely worth a read.

Planting 1.2 Trillion Trees Could Cancel Out a Decade of CO2 Emissions, Scientists Find

There is enough room in the world’s existing parks, forests, and abandoned land to plant 1.2 trillion additional trees, which would have the CO2 storage capacity to cancel out a decade of carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new analysis by ecologist Thomas Crowther and colleagues at ETH Zurich, a Swiss university.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I dont finance troops but i do use oil and feel a little guilty at the need for it so i bought 100 (actually 40 hectares) acres of Amazon rain forest. Its now privately owned land, no logging allowed. It helps offset the fuel i use.

I used to do that too but I am worried about people killing each other over the land. Killing is not the answer for me.