My sister got saved last night

[Samael_Khan]

How does one know if they are misguided? Simple.....they just need to learn about God and demonstrate a desire to please him instead of themselves.

One has to determine which version of God is correct in the first place. They believe that they worship the true God, same as you do.

There is criteria.....following Jesus' teachings to the letter, and demonstrating obedience to God's laws in everything. Jesus said that he would have the "good news of the Kingdom preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" before he brings an "end" to this present world system of things. (Matthew 24:14) That means that everyone gets a shot at hearing the message to either accept it or to reject it. There will be no interference from God in this decision making process. Its entirely up to us whether the message has meaning to us or not. It is offered but never forced. It is separating people as we speak.

No one will have grounds to blame God for their own choices.

This is biblical criteria. The first prerequisite is determining whether the Bible is from God in the first place.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes.....the positive thing is that it demonstrates that these people are at least spiritual, albeit misguided in their worship.
Why did Jesus preach to the Jews? Why did the apostles preach to the Gentiles? They got the same message, but one group by and large said "no thanks, he is not our Messiah" whereas the Gentile heathens responded and came to worship the true God through the teachings of his son.
Those formerly "saved" lost their place and it was given to those whose worship God accepted.

How does one know if they are misguided? Simple.....they just need to learn about God and demonstrate a desire to please him instead of themselves.

There is criteria.....following Jesus' teachings to the letter, and demonstrating obedience to God's laws in everything. Jesus said that he would have the "good news of the Kingdom preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" before he brings an "end" to this present world system of things. (Matthew 24:14) That means that everyone gets a shot at hearing the message to either accept it or to reject it. There will be no interference from God in this decision making process. Its entirely up to us whether the message has meaning to us or not. It is offered but never forced. It is separating people as we speak.

No one will have grounds to blame God for their own choices.

Misguided? I don't see spirituality like that, fortunately. I don't understand agreeing with your god that everyone else is wrong.

I mean, we can force people to believe in your god but it's not from the heart.

Edit. I ask again, how does this view help you spiritually?

If gods laws are all good,how does it help?

 

[Deeje]

Misguided? I don't see spirituality like that, fortunately. I don't understand agreeing with your god that everyone else is wrong.

I mean, we can force people to believe in your god but it's not from the heart.

He will not accept anything but heart felt worship. You can't fake it.

Edit. I ask again, how does this view help you spiritually?

If gods laws are all good,how does it help?

Unless you understand the Bible's overall theme, so much of it will fail to make sense.

We are being given choices right now....and those choices will determine our future life.

God's laws are always good....but only if you obey them....not just some or only a small part of them, but all of them, exactly as he had them written.

We have to choose to do that as free willed intelligent humans, created in his image. If we feel no need to do that, it is our choice. He gives all equal opportunity to get to know him.

According to the Bible, God will draw only those who choose to come to him through his son. (John 6:65)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He will not accept anything but heart felt worship. You can't fake it.



Unless you understand the Bible's overall theme, so much of it will fail to make sense.

We are being given choices right now....and those choices will determine our future life.

God's laws are always good....but only if you obey them....not just some or only a small part of them, but all of them, exactly as he had them written.

We have to choose to do that as free willed intelligent humans, created in his image. If we feel no need to do that, it is our choice. He gives all equal opportunity to get to know him.

According to the Bible, God will draw only those who choose to come to him through his son. (John 6:65)

Does gods laws against non-believers help you in your spiritual journey?

I don't see people as misguided for following paths (say Hindu or Christian or Pagan) that are contrary to another. They follow their heart.

Unless your god forces them to follow him, what is their benefit in following someone with whom their hearts arent attracted?

I tried to keep it short with both questions being direct.

 

[Deeje]

Does gods laws against non-believers help you in your spiritual journey?

How could it not help me?
According to the Bible, (which is the only spiritual text book that is valid to me) you cannot worship other gods and still expect the true God to accept you as his own....to aid you and abet you in your abandonment of him to follow other deities or to practice false worship. Why do you think he describes himself as a 'jealous' God? He likens our relationship to him as a contract, sealed with our baptism, vowing to remain faithful to him, no matter what. I personally have no problem doing that because God's will is more important to me than my own.

This is his earth to do with as he sees fit. He gave the first humans a choice to follow his instructions, or to go their own way and suffer the inevitable consequences, which included being left to fulfill their own desires without him. God is under no obligation to anyone who wants to break the rules.....yet he leaves the door of opportunity open until the very last. We can stand outside complaining...or we can get over ourselves....come on in and knuckle under. He is a very benevolent Master.

He gave me a choice of who to believe and he gave me a secure place to put my faith. I did not seek to put my own needs above others and I wanted share the good news of something better to come, with those who seek God but cannot find him.

I don't see people as misguided for following paths (say Hindu or Christian or Pagan) that are contrary to another. They follow their heart.

The Bible says that the heart is treacherous (Jeremiah 17:9).....it can become a 'partner in crime', justifying all manner of defective thinking.....but its a fool's paradise IMO. You can either become a willing slave to a loving God and respect his moral values and commands, or you can become a slave to yourself, and simply live by your own values, which will automatically disqualify you from all his future plans for this earth.....he didn't create it for nothing, you know. We have to fit in with his plans because he will never fit into ours.

Daniel Callahan, (PhD, is an internationally recognized thought leader in bioethics. A philosopher by training, Callahan co-founded the Hastings Center, a nonpartisan bioethics research institution) once wrote...
"If personal morality comes down to nothing more than the exercise of free choice, with no principles available for moral judgment of the quality of those choices, then law will inevitably be used to fill the resulting moral vacuum.”

The less people value morality, the more laws you need to combat their freedom to take away your freedom. A godless world is not a nice place to live. There isn't more than one God.

Unless your god forces them to follow him, what is their benefit in following someone with whom their hearts arent attracted?

If your heart is not attracted to God, then his heart is not attracted to you....is that a hard concept to accommodate?
He sentenced the first humans to death for disobeying him.....for stealing from him and disrespecting his Sovereignty....his right to set the terms of their existence. What makes you think he is going to treat any other human differently?

He told the Israelites....
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land". (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)
Realistically those are our choices. But loving God comes from getting to know him....and understanding the prospects that he is offering for the future.

There are terms to life.....it is a gift but it comes with conditions. If we do not meet them, we have no place in God's future plans.....that's it. Those are the only options.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How could it not help me?
According to the Bible, (which is the only spiritual text book that is valid to me) you cannot worship other gods and still expect the true God to accept you as his own....to aid you and abet you in your abandonment of him to follow other deities or to practice false worship. Why do you think he describes himself as a 'jealous' God? He likens our relationship to him as a contract, sealed with our baptism, vowing to remain faithful to him, no matter what. I personally have no problem doing that because God's will is more important to me than my own.

This is his earth to do with as he sees fit. He gave the first humans a choice to follow his instructions, or to go their own way and suffer the inevitable consequences, which included being left to fulfill their own desires without him. God is under no obligation to anyone who wants to break the rules.....yet he leaves the door of opportunity open until the very last. We can stand outside complaining...or we can get over ourselves....come on in and knuckle under. He is a very benevolent Master.

He gave me a choice of who to believe and he gave me a secure place to put my faith. I did not seek to put my own needs above others and I wanted share the good news of something better to come, with those who seek God but cannot find him.



The Bible says that the heart is treacherous (Jeremiah 17:9).....it can become a 'partner in crime', justifying all manner of defective thinking.....but its a fool's paradise IMO. You can either become a willing slave to a loving God and respect his moral values and commands, or you can become a slave to yourself, and simply live by your own values, which will automatically disqualify you from all his future plans for this earth.....he didn't create it for nothing, you know. We have to fit in with his plans because he will never fit into ours.

Daniel Callahan, (PhD, is an internationally recognized thought leader in bioethics. A philosopher by training, Callahan co-founded the Hastings Center, a nonpartisan bioethics research institution) once wrote...
"If personal morality comes down to nothing more than the exercise of free choice, with no principles available for moral judgment of the quality of those choices, then law will inevitably be used to fill the resulting moral vacuum.”

The less people value morality, the more laws you need to combat their freedom to take away your freedom. A godless world is not a nice place to live. There isn't more than one God.



If your heart is not attracted to God, then his heart is not attracted to you....is that a hard concept to accommodate?
He sentenced the first humans to death for disobeying him.....for stealing from him and disrespecting his Sovereignty....his right to set the terms of their existence. What makes you think he is going to treat any other human differently?

He told the Israelites....
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land". (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)
Realistically those are our choices. But loving God comes from getting to know him....and understanding the prospects that he is offering for the future.

There are terms to life.....it is a gift but it comes with conditions. If we do not meet them, we have no place in God's future plans.....that's it. Those are the only options.

Who cares if god doesn't care about the hindu, pagan, etc. Their hearts are elsewhere. So, a lot of what you say is personal opinion and belief not universal fact.

I'm assuming people who don't believe in God aren't trying to believe in it and their religion at the same time. God is useless. They just don't care. It's nothing personal.

 

[Deeje]

Who cares if god doesn't care about the hindu, pagan, etc. Their hearts are elsewhere. So, a lot of what you say is personal opinion and belief not universal fact.

You want universal facts? Seriously, what does that even mean?

All faith is just that.....belief.

Creation itself is enough of a ‘universal fact’ to establish the existence of a powerful Creator IMO....unless you think the universe just popped into existence by itself for no reason, and then just happened to spontaneously spawn life in all its myriad forms?

Humans are uniquely spiritual, so those who drew away from the the true God, decided to create other gods for themselves, who were less demanding....allowing them to what they wanted to do. The problem with that is that these gods don’t really exist. The Bible reveals who that worship really goes to. People are free to disbelieve all of it. That is free will.

But Biblical history paints a grim picture of those whose hearts were inclined to worship a different god(s). Or those who professed belief in him, but failed to obey his laws. Believe it or not....that is up to individual hearts.

As I said, my belief is that there is one God who is the Creator of the entire universe, and that makes him the rightful owner of the planet upon which we are given tenancy. That tenancy, like all contracts, has conditions. The terms are clearly set out and we are to live within those reasonable restrictions or else face eviction. Flouting those rules or pretending to be the owner of the property so that you can do whatever you like with it, will not be tolerated. No landlord would allow tenants like that to continue living on his property under those circumstances.

I'm assuming people who don't believe in God aren't trying to believe in it and their religion at the same time. God is useless. They just don't care. It's nothing personal.

And there you have it......”God is useless. They just don’t care.”

If that is the attitude, then I’m sorry, but that is very personal to the God who gave us life...and asked so little in return.
You don’t bite the hand that feeds you and grants you breath and treat him with contempt. He reserves the right to withdraw life from those who don’t appreciate the gift, or the one who gave it.

How is that not fair. He allows us to choose our own future. If people have no place for God in their lives, then he has no place for them in his future plans for this earth. It’s a simple concept surely?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Are you saying that when you are saved you don't have an "ah-Ha" moment?

I am saying what Matthew 24:13 says: the one who endures to the end is saved, That happy ending is the real 'ah-Ha' moment.
A person can fall away, a person's name can be erased from the Book of Life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Doesn't the bible say that one must correct their brothers and sisters when they make a mistake? In order to do that one must make a judgement call first.
Also judging someone isn't wrong:
John 7:24
"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” Judging someone is an important part of your faith.

True, God's judgement is already recorded in Scripture for all to see. Human judges were to use God's judgement in making decisions - Psalms 82.
However, I'd like to add when Jesus mentioned about not judging he was speaking about 'personal judgement' of another.
We are Not to impute a bad or wrong motive to another.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What would be the equivalent of the word saved based on what she felt?

What she felt would be based on her thinking.
In Scripture, I find the equivalent of the word saved is: delivered or rescued.
The ancient Israelites were saved from bondage in Egypt because God delivered them out of Egypt, so they were rescued out of bondage.
Noah was saved by the Flood waters, so Noah was delivered from that un-godly world.
The great crowd of people of Revelation 7:9,14 will be saved through the great tribulation, rescued and delivered to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth .

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is biblical criteria. The first prerequisite is determining whether the Bible is from God in the first place.

I'm Not trying to be a smart alec, but to me the first prerequisite is determining whether the Bible is NOT from God in the first place.
What does Not fit the description today as found at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 or Luke 21:11 ____________________
Most people want peace, so it seems odd to me that there is Not more peace on earth.
Mankind's long history continues to prove that man has dominated man to man's hurt, to man's injury.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Does gods laws against non-believers help you in your spiritual journey?
I don't see people as misguided for following paths (say Hindu or Christian or Pagan) that are contrary to another. They follow their heart.
Unless your god forces them to follow him, what is their benefit in following someone with whom their hearts arent attracted?.................

In mankind's long history we see that God forces No one to worship him.
However, the Bible does mention a warning about following one's heart at Jeremiah 17:9.
One's heart can be attached to something that could harm others.
Jeremiah wrote that the imperfect heart is treacherous. ( Not to make decisions by one's heart.)
In other words, it is like having a traitor within us.
The imperfect heart urges us to do something, and afterwards the heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place.
So, to me it is No wonder that Jesus warns us about what is 'within the heart' at Mark 7:21-23.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

[QUOTE="Unveiled Artist, post: 6680102, member: 55631....................If gods laws are all good,how does it help?[/QUOTE]
To me how does the law of love, or the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) , Not help_____________
Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 shows we are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, MORE than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
If everyone on Earth lived by that Christ-like self-sacrificing love how could it Not help ___________

 

[Samael_Khan]

I'm Not trying to be a smart alec, but to me the first prerequisite is determining whether the Bible is NOT from God in the first place.
What does Not fit the description today as found at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 or Luke 21:11 ____________________
Most people want peace, so it seems odd to me that there is Not more peace on earth.
Mankind's long history continues to prove that man has dominated man to man's hurt, to man's injury.

The scriptures you quoted are too vague as those attitudes of people and the earthquakes, famines and pestilences have been happening since recorded history and with regards to the events, worse ones have happened in the past. The scriptures basically seem to be describing normal events. The only point which would be exceptional is the great signs in heaven, whatever that is, and depending on what it is it hasn't happened yet. So those things would have happened today because they have happened for millenniums.

Lots of people do want peace but those who seek power over others do not and they are the ones who control the world.

So in conclusion those scriptures could just be wise words said by an observant everyday person.

None of those things prove that a book is from God, as there must be a direct link between them and God. This transcends whether what it predicts about the future comes to pass as even that doesn't prove that a God exists or wrote a book. It just concludes that the person or people who wrote the book could predict the future.

The one who says that the Bible is from God is the one making the claim therefore the onus is on them to prove it.

 

[Samael_Khan]

True, God's judgement is already recorded in Scripture for all to see. Human judges were to use God's judgement in making decisions - Psalms 82.
However, I'd like to add when Jesus mentioned about not judging he was speaking about 'personal judgement' of another.
We are Not to impute a bad or wrong motive to another.

True. I am glad you noticed the point in the last sentence you made.

One can judge actions though, and as the scriptures say, "from the heart the mouth speaks". What a person says and does reflects what they feel and think as it has to originate from somewhere.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In mankind's long history we see that God forces No one to worship him.
However, the Bible does mention a warning about following one's heart at Jeremiah 17:9.
One's heart can be attached to something that could harm others.
Jeremiah wrote that the imperfect heart is treacherous. ( Not to make decisions by one's heart.)
In other words, it is like having a traitor within us.
The imperfect heart urges us to do something, and afterwards the heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place.
So, to me it is No wonder that Jesus warns us about what is 'within the heart' at Mark 7:21-23.

Those who follow religions from their heart these things don't apply. Assuming they have the same heart as the JW, Catholic, etc, no one group has different/better connection to their faith than another. Many religions don't split the two, though. Christianity does.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

[QUOTE="Unveiled Artist, post: 6680102, member: 55631....................If gods laws are all good,how does it help?

To me how does the law of love, or the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) , Not help_____________
Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 shows we are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, MORE than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
If everyone on Earth lived by that Christ-like self-sacrificing love how could it Not help ___________[/QUOTE]

Many do. But not in the name of Christ and certainly not from the bible. Self sacrifice isn't only in the bible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In mankind's long history we see that God forces No one to worship him.
However, the Bible does mention a warning about following one's heart at Jeremiah 17:9.
One's heart can be attached to something that could harm others.
Jeremiah wrote that the imperfect heart is treacherous. ( Not to make decisions by one's heart.)
In other words, it is like having a traitor within us.
The imperfect heart urges us to do something, and afterwards the heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place.
So, to me it is No wonder that Jesus warns us about what is 'within the heart' at Mark 7:21-23.

I'm speaking of non-believers who do believe and worship on their heart. Unless god forced people to worship him, I dont see any fault in any religion regardless their god(s) or object(s) of worship.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The scriptures you quoted are too vague as those attitudes of people and the earthquakes, famines and pestilences have been happening since recorded history and with regards to the events, worse ones have happened in the past. The scriptures basically seem to be describing normal events. The only point which would be exceptional is the great signs in heaven, whatever that is, and depending on what it is it hasn't happened yet. So those things would have happened today because they have happened for millenniums.
Lots of people do want peace but those who seek power over others do not and they are the ones who control the world.
So in conclusion those scriptures could just be wise words said by an observant everyday person.
None of those things prove that a book is from God, as there must be a direct link between them and God. This transcends whether what it predicts about the future comes to pass as even that doesn't prove that a God exists or wrote a book. It just concludes that the person or people who wrote the book could predict the future.
The one who says that the Bible is from God is the one making the claim therefore the onus is on them to prove it.

To me what also acts as 'proof from God' besides 2 Timothy 3:1-5; Luke 21:11 is what Jesus said would be done at the same time as mentioned at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
In connection to all that is happening on an international scale is also coupled with the declaring about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 on a world-wide scale.
This proclaiming about God's kingdom government is now a direct link being done on a grand scope as never before in history.
Modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation so people even in remote areas of Earth now have Scripture in their own mother tongue, their own native languages. This includes audio and video.

Yes, MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, to MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
So,this includes those in power over others controlling this unrighteous world. ( this includes corrupted political, religious and business power )
When Pres. Johnson was Senator he said 'who ever has the ultimate position has the ultimate power', (thus the space race as part of great signs in the heavens, plus including the 'governmental heavens' lording it over mankind in general ).
However, corrupted mankind ( some who think they shine bright like *stars* ) they ignore that the God of the Bible has that ultimate position.

Theinternational telling about God's kingdom is now in its ' final phase '.
So, this means we are nearing the ' final signal ' as found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security...." this will prove to the the precursor of the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
So, to me this is Not vague but comprehensive that the God of the Bible will soon have Jesus take action - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm speaking of non-believers who do believe and worship on their heart. Unless god forced people to worship him, I dont see any fault in any religion regardless their god(s) or object(s) of worship.

This is why the good news about God's kingdom ( Daniel 2:44 ) is now declared internationally as Jesus said it would at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
So, how a person responds once they come in contact with that news shows one's heart condition.