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My opinion regarding the origin of the traditional Christian doctrine of "Original Sin"

Discussion in 'Christian Denominations DIR' started by Terry Sampson, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    1. Herein is MY opinion regarding the origin of the traditional Christian doctrine of "Original Sin" for inquiring minds.
    2. I reached this opinion as a result of my involvement in Estro Felino's thread: To Hebrew experts: did Eve sleep with the Serpent?
    3. My opinion assumes that a "carry-over" of Judaic rabbinical reasoning took place when one or more Jews became followers of Jesus of Nazareth, before or soon after his crucifixion, entombment, resurrection, and ascension.
    4. I expressed my opinion for the first time in my post #22 in my thread: A Baha'i Conundrum (by invitation only)
    5. Please note: I am posting this thread in the Christian Denominations DIR. In other words, my opinion is not open to debate ... here. Anyone who has sufficient objection(s) to my opinion is free to state their objections in some other RF Forum location, bearing in mind that the probability of a response from me on the matter will most likely be 0%. Creating a one-on-one thread or a "by invitation only thread" and inviting me to participate in a reasonable AND civil exchange of ideas regarding my opinion will certainly be considered by me, ... unless, of course, you are one of the privileged few who have made it onto my ignore list, in which case you may want to consider taking the matter to Pope Francis :).
    6. Herewith is the substance of my opinion:


    "As a consequence of my recent involvement in Estro Felino's thread To Hebrew experts: did Eve sleep with the Serpent?, I have a much clearer picture of the origin of the doctrine of original sin, to wit:

    [From the Babylonian Talmud]
    • B. Shabbat 145b-146a:
      • Rabbi Yoḥanan then explained to them: Why are gentiles ethically contaminated? It is because they did not stand on Mount Sinai. As when the snake came upon Eve, i.e., when it seduced her to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, it infected her with moral contamination, and this contamination remained in all human beings. When the Jewish people stood at Mount Sinai, their contamination ceased, whereas gentiles did not stand at Mount Sinai, and their contamination never ceased. Rav Aḥa, the son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: What about converts? How do you explain the cessation of their moral contamination? Rav Ashi said to him: Even though they themselves were not at Mount Sinai, their guardian angels were present, as it is written: “It is not with you alone that I make this covenant and this oath, but with he that stands here with us today before the Lord our God, and with he that is not here with us today” (Deuteronomy 29:13–14), and this includes converts.
    • B. Avodah Zarah 22b:
      • ... as Rabbi Yoḥanan says: At the time when the snake came upon Eve, at the time of the sin of her eating from the Tree of Knowledge, it infected her with moral contamination, and this contamination lingers in all human beings. The Gemara ... answers: With regard to the Jewish people, who stood at Mount Sinai and received the Torah, their contamination ended, whereas in the case of gentiles, who did not stand at Mount Sinai and receive the Torah, their contamination has not ended.
    We Gentiles (including me), who neither stood at Mount Sinai nor have ancestors who stood at Mount Sinai nor are converts to Judaism, continue to bear our ancestral contamination. Jesus of Nazareth, a righteous Jew, who was born uncontaminated and, fulfilling the Law given at Sinai, remained and remains uncontaminated, is the source and cause of decontamination for all who want it. "And there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts of the Apostles 4:12).

    From the day of our salvation to the day of our death, we are free from the inherited sin, but we are not free to sin. It is written:
    • Ezekiel 18:1. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “What do you mean by using this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The fathers eat the sour grapes,
      But the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live,” declares the Lord God, “you are surely not going to use this proverb in Israel anymore. 4 Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die. 5 “But if a man is righteous and practices justice and righteousness, ... 9 if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully—he is righteous and will surely live,” declares the Lord God.
    I need no other name."
     
    #1 Terry Sampson, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  2. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    If you are responding to someone specifically, they must be on my "Ignore" list. If you're addressing me, however, I recommend that you draw my attention to your post by tying @Terry Sampson. That will initiate a notification alert to me specifically.
    And watch out for Item #5 in my OP. I won't whack you for a violation of the "No debating in a DIR thread" rule, but I hope the Moderators will.
     
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Not sure how you are defining debate, then, or what the purpose of this announcement is. There is a 'member announcement' dir
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Interesting!
     
  5. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Screenshot_2019-09-16 Debating in the DIR.png
     
  6. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    From my OP, Item #5:

    Screenshot_2019-09-16 Forums(1).png Screenshot_2019-09-16 Forums.png

    Screenshot_2019-09-16 One-on-One Debates.png
     
    #6 Terry Sampson, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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