My off-the-wall political question

[PoetPhilosopher]

What's a libertarian American progressive?

To me, generally "libertarian" and "progressive" are mutually exclusive.

I should explain the train of thought, I think. I've been looking at the Political Compass test:

I then Googled some things regarding the matter. While some things agreed with my thoughts, many others didn't. And if this thread is any indication, which I think it is - the terminology I used isn't precise enough to have any real meaning on this forum, when discussing with others.

 

[icehorse]

Would you rather live in a society run by libertarian American progressives, or one run by authoritarian communists?

Hmmm, "libertarian progressive" seems almost oxymoronic to me. Can you define that a bit more?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Hmmm, "libertarian progressive" seems almost oxymoronic to me. Can you define that a bit more?

There's not much science behind it, really. I consider myself a progressive going by the interpretation of "progressive" I see in the media, and when I took the Political Compass test, I was off in the Libertarian category of the Political Compass test. I assume someone like Bernie Sanders would be too.

 

[ChristineM]

One is the Bear Party. The other is the Haggis Eaters Party.

Is the pic-a-nic basket party an offshoot of the bear party?.

 

[icehorse]

There's not much science behind it, really. I consider myself a progressive going by the interpretation of "progressive" I see in the media, and when I took the Political Compass test, I was off in the Libertarian category of the Political Compass test. I assume someone like Bernie Sanders would be too.

I suspect that makes you a rare sort of kat

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Would you rather live in a society run by libertarian American progressives, or one run by authoritarian communists?

either one is a step up, from being run by republicans and corporate ceos

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

What's a libertarian American progressive?

To me, generally "libertarian" and "progressive" are mutually exclusive.

I thought the same, but assumed Kit Kat mixed them on purpose

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I thought the same, but assumed Kit Kat mixed them on purpose

I'm just confused as to whether when people say that libertarian and progressive are mutually exclusive, if they mean the Libertarian Party and progressive are mutually exclusive, or whether they mean libertarianism and progressive are mutually exclusive.

 

[Revoltingest]

Would you rather live in a society run by libertarian American progressives, or one run by authoritarian communists?

Gee...tough...OK...libertarian Ameristanian progressives.

 

[Revoltingest]

Imo libertarian and progressivism are mutually exclusive terms.

This must mean that I don't exist.
Or.....
Some people don't see "progressive" as being about
liberty, tolerance, & assistance. Instead, it's more
regulation of our lives according to their morals.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm just confused as to whether when people say that libertarian and progressive are mutually exclusive, if they mean the Libertarian Party and progressive are mutually exclusive, or whether they mean libertarianism and progressive are mutually exclusive.

It's a tribal thing.
I'm a card carrying fire breathing Libertarian who
once took some tests, & discovered that not only
am I progressive, I'm also more feminist than most
liberals. Go figure.
They just don't want the likes of me in their tent.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I could be looking at things the wrong way, but...

There are two things that in my mind go on, libertarianism, and the Libertarian party.

I'll give an example. Good ol' @Revoltingest seems to be a member of the Libertarian party. I don't think anyone's much going to debate that. But whether he subscribes to libertarianism might depend a lot on some questions we'd have to ask him, like "What do you think of Nazi Germany?" If he tends to have some sympathy on the subject, he might not subscribe much to libertarianism, despite being a member of the Libertarian party. If on the other hand he wants really nothing to do with Nazi Germany or their type of rule, he's not only part of the Libertarian party, he's also libertarian.

Am I getting this wrong?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I'm just confused as to whether when people say that libertarian and progressive are mutually exclusive, if they mean the Libertarian Party and progressive are mutually exclusive, or whether they mean libertarianism and progressive are mutually exclusive.

well, about 21 years ago when I dumped the republican party, I became Libertarian

it sounded good, and I liked some of Ron Paul’s message

but as time went on, only a couple years, I realized Libertarian is pretty dog eat dog mentality

progressive to me, is providing a prosperous country for all people to do well in

they seem like opposite to me, but then I don’t know

 

[Revoltingest]

I could be looking at things the wrong way, but...

There are two things that in my mind go on, libertarianism, and the Libertarian party.

I'll give an example. Good ol' @Revoltingest seems to be a member of the Libertarian party. I don't think anyone's much going to debate that. But whether he subscribes to libertarianism might depend a lot on some questions we'd have to ask him, like "What do you think of Nazi Germany?" If he tends to have some sympathy on the subject, he might not subscribe much to libertarianism, despite being a member of the Libertarian party. If on the other hand he wants really nothing to do with it, he's not only part of the Libertarian party, he's also libertarian.

Am I getting this wrong?

Awkward wording there.

I favor liberty to the extent practical.
An example of "practical"...
We say...
"Our right to swing our arms ends where our
neighbor's nose begins."
How would this apply to a shared environment?
If I poured used motor oil in a stream, this would
harm those downstream. So making such an act
illegal is useful regulation because it maximizes
liberty for all, with minimal burden upon individuals.

Oh, I oppose Nazis.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's a tribal thing.
I'm a card carrying fire breathing Libertarian who
once took some tests, & discovered that not only
am I progressive, I'm also more feminist than most
liberals. Go figure.
They just don't want the likes of me in their tent.

The issue of feminism does get really complicated. It's all about breaking down the gender stereotypes, it seems. Equal for both genders. Equity on everything. Yet, if you aren't an activist of the subject, it's kind of hard to fit in with feminists, if I'm honest.

I don't think I'm feminist. Though I did score "slightly feminist" on an online test.

 

[Revoltingest]

The issue of feminism does get really complicated. It's all about breaking down the gender stereotypes, it seems. Equal for both genders. Equity on everything. Yet, if you aren't an activist of the subject, it's kind of hard to fit in with feminists, if I'm honest.

I don't think I'm feminist. Though I did score "slightly feminist" on an online test.

A fundie friend of mine once told me that the cromulence of
an argument depends not on the quality of the argument, but
on the credibility of the arguer. I have a credibility problem, eh.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There is a way that I can sum up why I'm not a feminist very, very quickly: "I believe that 60 percent of the gender roles/stereotypes are useful. To break them down, I would just be aiming for that other 40 percent while destroying that 60 percent."

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

A fundie friend of mine once told me that the cromulence of
an argument depends not on the quality of the argument, but
on the credibility of the arguer. I have a credibility problem, eh.

I have my doubts you'd enjoy yourself in a feminist circle, too. It's complicated, though.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Awkward wording there.

I favor liberty to the extent practical.
An example of "practical"...
We say...
"Our right to swing our arms ends where our
neighbor's nose begins."
How would this apply to a shared environment?
If I poured used motor oil in a stream, this would
harm those downstream. So making such an act
illegal is useful regulation because it maximizes
liberty for all, with minimal burden upon individuals.

Oh, I oppose Nazis.

i have a strong tendency toward the Libertarian ideals

probably because of the times I grew up in

i would dream of living somewhere in Idaho or Wyoming, about 150 years ago

but the modern world kind of ruins all dreams of real freedom

 

[Revoltingest]

I have my doubts you'd enjoy yourself in a feminist circle, too. It's complicated, though.

It all depends upon the individuals in the circle.
Thoughtful, tolerant, civil people are no problem.
But some people's children....they draw blood.