Hi.
I will have my first lesson in an hour and a half. Will keep you guys posted of my progress with lessons.
I will have my first lesson in an hour and a half. Will keep you guys posted of my progress with lessons.
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My missionary lessons
- Thread starter robocop (actually)
- Start date
The first lesson went well, but they kept inviting me to go back to Church when I'm attending already. They seem to think I have a long way to go. The next lesson is Wednesday at 11 am EST.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm not exactly sure what your background is. Were you initially raised LDS and then left or were you a convert the first time around as well? I'm glad your bishop is supportive of you and doesn't really care if your beliefs line up exactly with traditional Mormonism. My guess, though, is that your beliefs (which, I'm sure you'll admit are not very mainstream Mormon) are probably going to throw the missionaries for a loop. They're not going to know what to do with you.
They're going to probably think they have to make you fit into some kind of a neat little box and you're just not going to fit no matter what they do. If they start to give each other a "What is going on?" look, just tell them that you've already chatted with the bishop and he's on board with you coming back, however "unorthdox" your beliefs may seem to an average 18-year-old Mormon kid. Good luck. I'm excited to hear about lesson 2.
OH don't worry. It's not nearly that bad. They just think it might take me a while to get worthy. It's not about having weird beliefs!
I was baptized at 8 and apostatized at 29. But I'm keeping every commandment and when they see that it should be fine.
I was baptized at 8 and apostatized at 29. But I'm keeping every commandment and when they see that it should be fine.
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I'm not sure what they meant; I'll see if I can ask them to make it clear after the next lesson.
Also, I barely remember having a dream about going to the Temple last night.
P.S. Sorry I won't spam the Christian Denominational threads.
Also, I barely remember having a dream about going to the Temple last night.
P.S. Sorry I won't spam the Christian Denominational threads.
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Got the 2nd and 3rd lessons down and getting the 4th lesson on Friday.
Why couldn't Adam and Eve have had children before they partook of the fruit?
Why couldn't Adam and Eve have had children before they partook of the fruit?
Got the 2nd and 3rd lessons down and getting the 4th lesson on Friday.
Why couldn't Adam and Eve have had children before they partook of the fruit?
I am interested in the answer to that question. Lets see if it lines up with the Bible....?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
The one thing that really jumps out at you when you read Genesis is how Adam and Eve didn't even know they were naked until after they ate the forbidden fruit. I think this is significant. It's not that they were physically incapable of reproduction, but that they were in such a state of innocence that there was simply no sexual desire. By the way, I use the word "innocence" not as a way from saying they were "free from guilt" but as a synonym for "purity." The Cambridge English Dictionary defines innocence as "the quality of not having much experience of life and not knowing about the bad things." Put a three-year-old little boy in the bathtub with his two-year-old little sister and they're going to be completely oblivious to the differences in their physical appearance. Within a short time, this will change, but that's as a result of their maturing. God had given Eve to Adam with the intention of their being together forever, bearing children together and growing old together. But, as the missionaries will probably tell you, and as you probably already know, knowledge is critical to our growth and progression. It is impossible for us to recognize the good things in life without also being exposed to the not-so-good things. Nobody who has never been sick a day in his life can fully appreciate what it means to have good health. Nobody who has had everything in life presented to him on a silver platter can understand the incredible joy that comes from having to work to attain something worthwhile. The knowledge that Adam and Eve got from eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil took away their innocence (i.e. their lack of experience). Could a parent who wasn't able to distinguish between good and evil be expected to raise a child? There has always been order in God's Plan, and as I'm sure you already know, the Fall was a necessary part of it.Got the 2nd and 3rd lessons down and getting the 4th lesson on Friday.
Why couldn't Adam and Eve have had children before they partook of the fruit?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, we all know it's not going to line up with how you read the Bible, Deeje. But the fact of the matter is that the Bible doesn't actually address that question at all.
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Hi Robocop :
I am a convert to restorational theology, having been introduced to restorative theology and the LDS missionaries in college. I look back with fondness on how little both I AND the missionaries knew. While the missionaries were teaching correct early Christian Theology, I do not know if they understood the nuances of it. They were, like myself, young.
The early Christian theology in their early texts make clear the ancient Christian belief that Adam and Eve would not have had children was related to insufficient moral knowledge and maturity.
For example, the early Christian text, Apocalypse of Adam confirms this early teaching. In this text, Adam is teaching his son about a past event when three messengers of God, who came to him and gave him even more moral knowledge and understanding than he was given by the tree. That is, after Adams expulsion from the Garden, God continued to give Adam and Eve the very thing they wanted to obtain by partaking of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam says : “Now I was sleeping in the thought of my heart, and I saw before me three men whose appearance I could not recognize because they were not from the powers of the God who created me. They surpassed [those powers in their] glory. The men [spoke] , saying to me, ‘Rise up, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, the one who came forth from you and from Eve your wife. When I heard these words from those great men who stood before me, we sighted in our hearts, I and Eve. And the Lord, the God who created us, stood in our presence and said to us, ‘Adam, why were you sighing in your hearts? Do you not know that I am God who created you, and that I breathed into you a spirit of life for a living soul?’ “Then darkness fell over our eyes. ......”[then I was defiled] in the thought of my heart. I recognized a sweet desire for your mother. Then the vigor of our eternal knowledge perished in us, and feebleness pursued us. For this reason the days of our life became few, for I knew that I had become subject to the power of death. “Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you what was revealed to me by those men whom I once saw before me." (Apoc of Adam 2:1-6-7, ch 3:1)
That this “sweet desire” is not simply a fraternal fondness or non-physical love (which the records make clear that Adam already felt), but was a physical passion, the Prophet Baruch makes clear when he also describes the effect of the fall of mankind from a primal state : “For when he transgressed, untimely death came into being, mourning was mentioned, affliction was prepared, illness was created, labor accomplished, pride began to come into existence, the realm of death began to ask to be renewed with blood, the conception of children came about, the passion of the parents was produced...”The apocalypse of Baruch (Baruch 2) 55:6
The early texts confirm the explanation Katzpur gave, i.e. that the inability to have children was due to lack of sexual passion and maturity at that specific time.
Good luck in own spiritual journey Robocop
Clear
ζωφιζωω
I am a convert to restorational theology, having been introduced to restorative theology and the LDS missionaries in college. I look back with fondness on how little both I AND the missionaries knew. While the missionaries were teaching correct early Christian Theology, I do not know if they understood the nuances of it. They were, like myself, young.
The early Christian theology in their early texts make clear the ancient Christian belief that Adam and Eve would not have had children was related to insufficient moral knowledge and maturity.
For example, the early Christian text, Apocalypse of Adam confirms this early teaching. In this text, Adam is teaching his son about a past event when three messengers of God, who came to him and gave him even more moral knowledge and understanding than he was given by the tree. That is, after Adams expulsion from the Garden, God continued to give Adam and Eve the very thing they wanted to obtain by partaking of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam says : “Now I was sleeping in the thought of my heart, and I saw before me three men whose appearance I could not recognize because they were not from the powers of the God who created me. They surpassed [those powers in their] glory. The men [spoke] , saying to me, ‘Rise up, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, the one who came forth from you and from Eve your wife. When I heard these words from those great men who stood before me, we sighted in our hearts, I and Eve. And the Lord, the God who created us, stood in our presence and said to us, ‘Adam, why were you sighing in your hearts? Do you not know that I am God who created you, and that I breathed into you a spirit of life for a living soul?’ “Then darkness fell over our eyes. ......”[then I was defiled] in the thought of my heart. I recognized a sweet desire for your mother. Then the vigor of our eternal knowledge perished in us, and feebleness pursued us. For this reason the days of our life became few, for I knew that I had become subject to the power of death. “Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you what was revealed to me by those men whom I once saw before me." (Apoc of Adam 2:1-6-7, ch 3:1)
That this “sweet desire” is not simply a fraternal fondness or non-physical love (which the records make clear that Adam already felt), but was a physical passion, the Prophet Baruch makes clear when he also describes the effect of the fall of mankind from a primal state : “For when he transgressed, untimely death came into being, mourning was mentioned, affliction was prepared, illness was created, labor accomplished, pride began to come into existence, the realm of death began to ask to be renewed with blood, the conception of children came about, the passion of the parents was produced...”The apocalypse of Baruch (Baruch 2) 55:6
The early texts confirm the explanation Katzpur gave, i.e. that the inability to have children was due to lack of sexual passion and maturity at that specific time.
Good luck in own spiritual journey Robocop
Clear
ζωφιζωω
That's what I figured. Thanks Clear. It's just paperwork, interview and the baptism now.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm confused. I thought you changed your mind a few weeks back. So you've now changed it again? If so,
.
In September I was all LDS. I have had the four missionary lessons and I am doing this on the same level as all the other members.I'm confused. I thought you changed your mind a few weeks back. So you've now changed it again? If so,
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Nice to know!!! Congrats!
Of course, I can bring valuable and varied perspective to the Church, but I need to make sure that I don't go against any of its principles or doctrines or covenants or gospel or plans or prophets. At any rate, once I'm baptized I can start being a part-time missionary.
Yep, the bishop said yes.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Let us know when it happens and we can throw a party!