My Grandmother is a TERRORIST!!

[Natural Submission]

Much of my family, friends and loved one's are not in agreement with the Invasion of Iraq, and the so-called War on Terror. i do not think a country can run independent of a central government, nor can a city run absent of a police force. The problem is when people in these positions of "power" act corrupt and get out of control.

Anyway to the topic. Concerning the War on Terror the President once said "Your either with us...or your with the terrorists"

Now because my Grandmother does not agree with the War on Terror, rather the strategies of the US to hunt down the terrorists, does this make her a terrorist?

Likewise the President said anyone who assists the terrorists in anyway is a terrorist and will be given the same punishment. So if one were to pick up a hitchhiker who happens to be a terrorist, are we now guilty of aiding terrorism?

My point is that it shouldn't (can't) be so cut and dry with no shades of gray. According to the President we either have to support his crusade in every manner, or we're with the terrorists.

Any thoughts?

 

[Halcyon]

Lol, obviously your grandmother is not a terrorist. I don't agree with the war on terror, bush did it for oil not for human rights, anyone with open eyes can see that. But that doesn't mean i support terrorism.

 

[Natural Submission]

Yes clearly my point. i don't like the way the president tries to make us submit to his agenda...or else. My Grandmother about had a heart attack when she heard the above statement.

 

[painted wolf]

I was denyed flying to New Mexico from New Hampshire due to the possibility that I may have been a terrorist. :areyoucra

We bought the tickets before 9/11 when you didn't need a photo ID to bord a plane. I didn't have a photo-ID to prove I was who I said I was... I had my birth certificate, social security card and a few other non-photo pieces of ID. Not good enough.

Worst part is we weren't able to get a refund... I lost over $600.

I will say though that I was very amused at the idea that I was a 'security threat' and with a mix of pride and mocking derision stated that I was a 'potental terrorist'. :sarcastic

wa:do

 

[Studies]

Well in my opinon Bush can want everyone to goose step in time with all of his desisions. The fact remains that we as Americans can choose for ourseleves and if we don't agree with him whats he going to do throw us in prison. ?

 

[Natural Submission]

I was denyed flying to New Mexico from New Hampshire due to the possibility that I may have been a terrorist. :areyoucra

We bought the tickets before 9/11 when you didn't need a photo ID to bord a plane. I didn't have a photo-ID to prove I was who I said I was... I had my birth certificate, social security card and a few other non-photo pieces of ID. Not good enough.

Worst part is we weren't able to get a refund... I lost over $600.

I will say though that I was very amused at the idea that I was a 'security threat' and with a mix of pride and mocking derision stated that I was a 'potental terrorist'. :sarcastic

wa:do

Wow, that's terrible. My friend ran into basically the same problem recently as he tried to fly from London to the US. AFTER he was CLEARED at London to procede to the US, he was stopped at the US and they told him he couldn't enter because he was 'missing' some sort of ID, and they sent him back to London!!

Yes security is a must, but come on!! If London said it was OK for him to come here, the US should respect that...

 

[Halcyon]

Yes security is a must, but come on!! If London said it was OK for him to come here, the US should respect that...

I dunno, i think our security is as lame as yours.

 

[Dr. Khan]

Anyway to the topic. Concerning the War on Terror the President once said "Your either with us...or your with the terrorists"

Now because my Grandmother does not agree with the War on Terror, rather the strategies of the US to hunt down the terrorists, does this make her a terrorist?

Likewise the President said anyone who assists the terrorists in anyway is a terrorist and will be given the same punishment. So if one were to pick up a hitchhiker who happens to be a terrorist, are we now guilty of aiding terrorism?

According to the President we either have to support his crusade in every manner, or we're with the terrorists.

Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Come on the President is not that stupid,however; when you mention the word crusade I am moved, to indignation almost if not for the humor of the situation, yet it is not funny for that is exactly what you have regardless of his motives. They, Al quedea, consider us crusaders, which means they have an endless army of subjects ready to fight simply because we can be colored crusaders. To be identifyed with this ugly bunch from the dark and middle ages is unfanthomable, yet when I saw some of our troops take into their right hand the mark of the beast I was saddened so. All the crusaders had the mark of the beast in their right hand. The Anti'christ certainly did a real number on the world; even to this day people still have no idea what I'm talking about. The mark of the beast is the sign of the cross and the whole world lieth in wickedness just as it is written.

 

[Halcyon]

Come on the President is not that stupid,however; when you mention the word crusade I am moved, to indignation almost if not for the humor of the situation, yet it is not funny for that is exactly what you have regardless of his motives. They, Al quedea, consider us crusaders, which means they have an endless army of subjects ready to fight simply because we can be colored crusaders. To be identifyed with this ugly bunch from the dark and middle ages is unfanthomable, yet when I saw some of our troops take into their right hand the mark of the beast I was saddened so. All the crusaders had the mark of the beast in their right hand. The Anti'christ certainly did a real number on the world; even to this day people still have no idea what I'm talking about. The mark of the beast is the sign of the cross and the whole world lieth in wickedness just as it is written.

I have to admit i am phenominally confused. I thought you were a christian?

 

[Natural Submission]

Come on the President is not that stupid

Yes i agree. As we all should know, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. When one goes to court for a crime, he/she tries to find every loophole he/she can to be free. With the president's statement there is no loophole. Not that this is law, but it also puts one in the corner. It gives the presidential body the right to choose whether or not it considers one a terrorist. Obviously most will not be charged, such as my grandmother, for being a terrorist. But it gives the presidential body many options and leaves us (the masses) in suspension.

 

[Natural Submission]

I dunno, i think our security is as lame as yours.

Haha totally. It's funny to see areas in the airport that they have "roped" off and have a security guard sitting their. This is only done to trick the masses into thinking they are safe and there is no threat. But it goes far beyond that. According to the reports, the hijackers of 9.11 had tickets, ID and everything they needed to board the plane. So extra security guards really do nothing but give us the illusion of safety.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I think Bush purposefully uses language like that so that others will feel intimidated, or like they will be persecuted if they speak up for their beliefs. I don't know if he does it because he knows what to do, or because his advisors tell him. I know I've used this quote before, but it speaks so truly to what I fear that I'll use it again.

Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
--Hermann Goering
* Quote from Goering according to Gustave Gilbert, a psychologist, in a private conversation with Goering, during the Nuremberg trials.

And no, I'm not calling Bush a Nazi. I just really think that for anyone to use this tactic is horrifying. My rights are being thrown out the window by the current administration (and those that allow it to happen, in any party), the beliefs of anyone who isn't a conservative Christian are now considered suspect, and people can be held for no good reason without hope of release, and they have the audacity to call me a terrorist?!

In another thread, I was incandescent with happiness. This one. I'll be incandescent with anger.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The whole thing is way stupid.

I was born out of the US, but they have held up my passport request for three months now. Reasons?

1) I was born in Columbia

2) My birth certificate is in spanish (go figure)

3) I majored in Russian (but never finished).

4) I was labeled as a subversive by the FBI in the 60s for my anti-war activities.

This has cost me substantially as the owner of ScubaBoard.

The president and his lackies have tried to paint all who disagree with him as being treasonous. I still can't believe he was elected for a second term. I guess you CAN fool some of the people ALL of the time.

 

[Natural Submission]

I think Bush purposefully uses language like that so that others will feel intimidated, or like they will be persecuted if they speak up for their beliefs. I don't know if he does it because he knows what to do, or because his advisors tell him. I know I've used this quote before, but it speaks so truly to what I fear that I'll use it again.


And no, I'm not calling Bush a Nazi. I just really think that for anyone to use this tactic is horrifying. My rights are being thrown out the window by the current administration (and those that allow it to happen, in any party), the beliefs of anyone who isn't a conservative Christian are now considered suspect, and people can be held for no good reason without hope of release, and they have the audacity to call me a terrorist?!

In another thread, I was incandescent with happiness. This one. I'll be incandescent with anger.

Wow, that's a pretty hardcore quote. That says it the way it is, unfortunately we can see all of this within our own government.

i don't agree with everything said, and as you mentioned, am i now singled out because of it. i am a pacifist in that i despise war and murder, but i will fight to defend myself, my loved ones and my country. Does this make me a threat?

 

[Dr. Khan]

Yes i agree. As we all should know, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. When one goes to court for a crime, he/she tries to find every loophole he/she can to be free. With the president's statement there is no loophole. Not that this is law, but it also puts one in the corner. It gives the presidential body the right to choose whether or not it considers one a terrorist. Obviously most will not be charged, such as my grandmother, for being a terrorist. But it gives the presidential body many options and leaves us (the masses) in suspension.

I'm sorry the presdent is stupid, I thought it was obvious to everybody. The man invented the word "strategery " for which we still haven't a definition.
The president told you that the events of Sept11 changed him. We just finding out what that means. By no means was I defending the man in my previous post, just being alittle sarcastic.

 

[Prima]

***MOD POST***

This isn't a general 'Bush-bashing' thread, but a debate about terrorism as addressed in the government of the United States. It's not about passports, either If you would like to continue this it should move to Political Debates or to General Discussion.

 

[Dr. Khan]

I have to admit i am phenominally confused. I thought you were a christian?

See? your definition of a christian is that which is secular I suspect. My definition is that which is like those pictures of water in cana. Which Jesus turned into wine. :woohoo:Christians are supernatural people. We are established by power and we live by the same through the promises. We are the seed of Abraham by Jesus Christ. This question of images and signs have never been properly addressed. From what I have learned and I suspected for a long time is that according to the Book of Revelation christianity was cut off at sometime around Constantine ad300 and did not reemerge until after Martin Luther. Any way The Christianity after Constatine learned to kill. The Christ that I have come to know does not kill, and does not send out his servants to do the same. I am reserved to the opinion by the prophesys of the scriptures that armegiddon is the crusades and this means that the interpretation of the book has been mis understood by wise men who did not wait for the Spirit to reveal to them what the signs in the book meant. Yet John the writer wondered and asked what these things mean just as daniel.