My God Why have you forsaken me

[look3467]

Of Himself, the Carpenter did say....'brother and fellow servant'.>>>Thief

Before and after terms Jesus used: Before ervant) after (friends)
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Servants (under the law) work; friends (under grace)are invited.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Given to us in a silver platter!

definitely a difference between the two: old and new.

Blessings, AJ

P.S. I can only gather an opinion based on how and what you say in your posts to make my assumptions. I could be wrong, but that's all I can go with.

 

[Thief]

Before and after terms Jesus used: Before ervant) after (friends)
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Servants (under the law) work; friends (under grace)are invited.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Given to us in a silver platter!

definitely a difference between the two: old and new.

Blessings, AJ

P.S. I can only gather an opinion based on how and what you say in your posts to make my assumptions. I could be wrong, but that's all I can go with.

So we read the text in the same way....?
He is brother and fellow servant.

 

[look3467]

What do you think?
When the Carpenter did ask...'why have you forsaken Me?'

Was there an answer?...I think not.
There was no response.
His last hour was His own....as it will be with each one of us.>>>Thief

Jesus got His answer, in the silence, meaning yes, you must go all the way.

See, the end was not all at the cross because those held in prison (Termed hell) had yet to be visited.
A promise made that had to be fulfilled: Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

For out of prison shall the new kingdom begin: Ecc 4:14 For out of prison he cometh to reign; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor.

That verse having two applications, one for that time period and two, alluding to Jesus as beginning his mission with the poor, as in a manger, and ending up in prison, as visiting them that were held, to deliver them out of prison as the beginning of His kingdom.

In understanding my point of view in all of this, one has to have what I call God's basic theme that runs thought the whole of the bible.

That theme is God's creation, the fall, the judgment and last death.

That is basically mankind's condition were it not for God's own hand in saving us all from the last one death. Death not the physical but the spiritual.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

Jesus got His answer, in the silence, meaning yes, you must go all the way.

See, the end was not all at the cross because those held in prison (Termed hell) had yet to be visited.
A promise made that had to be fulfilled: Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

For out of prison shall the new kingdom begin: Ecc 4:14 For out of prison he cometh to reign; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor.

That verse having two applications, one for that time period and two, alluding to Jesus as beginning his mission with the poor, as in a manger, and ending up in prison, as visiting them that were held, to deliver them out of prison as the beginning of His kingdom.

In understanding my point of view in all of this, one has to have what I call God's basic theme that runs thought the whole of the bible.

That theme is God's creation, the fall, the judgment and last death.

That is basically mankind's condition were it not for God's own hand in saving us all from the last one death. Death not the physical but the spiritual.

Blessings, AJ

Okay...and this relates to the topic title...How?
I see digression....not resolution.

As if you would prefer a blanket salvation rant for all....
and this topic works for you?...in what way?

Not all are saved.

 

[look3467]

Okay...and this relates to the topic title...How?
I see digression....not resolution.

As if you would prefer a blanket salvation rant for all....
and this topic works for you?...in what way?

Not all are saved.

The title question is why? I gave an answer based on fulfillment of prophecy (Jesus' own words fulfilling prophecy) and the second reason for silence. Mean no answer is the answer.

Blanket salvation is due in part to our inability to gain salvation by our own works.
There is absolutely nothing we can do as far as works is concerned to gain salvation above the Ten Commandments.

Only God Himself could fulfill His own commandment requirements.

Which, He did as Jesus, thus blanketing salvation on all souls regardless of condition.

If the word enemy meant that God could not forgive them, then He could not require us to also forgive our enemies.

The spiritual end (the end result) of us is in His hands.

Now, we may grow in degree spiritually while we are yet alive in the flesh, but never without Christ' righteousness to save our souls.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

The title question is why? I gave an answer based on fulfillment of prophecy (Jesus' own words fulfilling prophecy) and the second reason for silence. Mean no answer is the answer.

Blanket salvation is due in part to our inability to gain salvation by our own works.
There is absolutely nothing we can do as far as works is concerned to gain salvation above the Ten Commandments.

Only God Himself could fulfill His own commandment requirements.

Which, He did as Jesus, thus blanketing salvation on all souls regardless of condition.

If the word enemy meant that God could not forgive them, then He could not require us to also forgive our enemies.

The spiritual end (the end result) of us is in His hands.

Now, we may grow in degree spiritually while we are yet alive in the flesh, but never without Christ' righteousness to save our souls.

Blessings, AJ

Nay...there is no blanket salvation.

And when the last hour arrives for you...it is your own...in silence...
Fair well.

 

[cablescavenger]

imo it was written by someone who had not given the subplots the attention they deserved.

P.S. there are a few people here writing in the definitive. Should this be in a Christianity DIR?[/quote]

Interesting note.

But how does one debate...without attempting to drawn a line?
Isn't the purpose of debate....to discuss and determine the topic at hand?

I suppose I could express the topic content in the form of question.
But the concept would remain the same.

What do you think?
When the Carpenter did ask...'why have you forsaken Me?'

Was there an answer?...I think not.
There was no response.
His last hour was His own....as it will be with each one of us.

Not sure why your post appears as it does...hope that's not confusing.

Yes it is confusing, if you would like to reword it I will be happy to respond.

 

[Thief]

Yes it is confusing, if you would like to reword it I will be happy to respond.

What is really confusing is your quoting technique.
My words appear side by side with yours.
That brings a careful reading to be sure of what you ask.

Anyway....
As I read the gospels I saw a Carpenter tried and executed for false accusation.
His words, during those last hours indicate the Spirit was no longer responding to Him.
The same Spirit that had bolstered every action and pronouncement was then, silent.

I see that event as fair warning.
For all that we say and do...no matter how great.....
the last hour...is ours to suffer....alone.

That the Spirit and the angels were willing to stand silent for Him....
I expect no more for myself.

 

[idav]

What is really confusing is your quoting technique.
My words appear side by side with yours.
That brings a careful reading to be sure of what you ask.

Anyway....
As I read the gospels I saw a Carpenter tried and executed for false accusation.
His words, during those last hours indicate the Spirit was no longer responding to Him.
The same Spirit that had bolstered every action and pronouncement was then, silent.

I see that event as fair warning.
For all that we say and do...no matter how great.....
the last hour...is ours to suffer....alone.

That the Spirit and the angels were willing to stand silent for Him....
I expect no more for myself.

One thing that is interesting about saying god spend his final hour alone makes it sound like he wasn't "God" that final hour. Almost like Jesus was a human that was endowed by God with power, I know sounds crazy.

 

[muhammad_isa]

One thing that is interesting about saying god spend his final hour alone makes it sound like he wasn't "God" that final hour..

Jesus (peace be with him) never was God in the first place
He was a man, who was chosen by God to preach the message of "the Father" ie. God

Yes .. he was born by the virgin Mary, but that doen't make God his 'earthly father' .. God did not have sexual relations with Mary (may God be pleased with her)
. . .
God does not have sexual relations FULL STOP. "He" is neither male or female.

 

[cablescavenger]

What is really confusing is your quoting technique.
My words appear side by side with yours.
That brings a careful reading to be sure of what you ask.

Anyway....
As I read the gospels I saw a Carpenter tried and executed for false accusation.
His words, during those last hours indicate the Spirit was no longer responding to Him.
The same Spirit that had bolstered every action and pronouncement was then, silent.

I see that event as fair warning.
For all that we say and do...no matter how great.....
the last hour...is ours to suffer....alone.

That the Spirit and the angels were willing to stand silent for Him....
I expect no more for myself.

Good for you.

 

[look3467]

Nay...there is no blanket salvation.

And when the last hour arrives for you...it is your own...in silence...
Fair well.

I accept the gift of life as gifted by the Father through Jesus my Savior and thus fear not the last hour.

My graduation day will come one day mean time I will have enjoyed all the benefits of God's heavenly kingdom here on earth early while many, well......will miss out.

But don't despair, your soul is bought and paid for, should you know.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Anyway....
As I read the gospels I saw a Carpenter tried and executed for false accusation.
His words, during those last hours indicate the Spirit was no longer responding to Him.
The same Spirit that had bolstered every action and pronouncement was then, silent.>>>Thief

I am surprised that the spirit of which you speak has not given you and understanding of why, you question, quote " indicate the Spirit was no longer responding to Him".

I will give you the answer. For the record, it had to be that way as prophecy foretold.

Prophecy: Psa 35:22 This thou hast seen, O LORD: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me.
Psa 83:1 <A Song or Psalm of Asaph.> Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Purpose?

"More literally, come to pass. Rev., there followed."....Vincent's word studies.

Prophecy fulfilled.

Blessings, AJ



Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Thief]

I accept the gift of life as gifted by the Father through Jesus my Savior and thus fear not the last hour.

My graduation day will come one day mean time I will have enjoyed all the benefits of God's heavenly kingdom here on earth early while many, well......will miss out.

But don't despair, your soul is bought and paid for, should you know.

Blessings, AJ

There you go flip-flopping again.

You are one of His...or not.
No blanket salvation.

Still...I don't count my fellowman out for his faith in other prophets.
Anyone who speaks well of God...will do well before the angels.

But there is a fine line between reciting salvation rants....
and having the wisdom of the Spirit.

 

[look3467]

You are one of His...or not.
No blanket salvation.>>>Thief

depends on how you look at it.

If by works, no! But if by faith, Yes!

For i know I could never attain the works necessary to gain my own salvation, save the works of God's righteousness as mine.

Where as, if by works I would fear that even before angels I would fail miserably.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

depends on how you look at it.

If by works, no! But if by faith, Yes!

For i know I could never attain the works necessary to gain my own salvation, save the works of God's righteousness as mine.

Where as, if by works I would fear that even before angels I would fail miserably.

Blessings, AJ

you believe don't you?
you have the ability to save yourself just by believing... a work no less.

 

[muhammad_isa]

you believe don't you?
you have the ability to save yourself just by believing... a work no less.

Yes .. belief can save..
But what belief? Does it matter what you believe? .. Of course it does!

It is belief which changes your behaviour .. if your behaviour is not affected by your belief, then how can you expect to arrive at a particular destination :candle:

 

[Thief]

you believe don't you?
you have the ability to save yourself just by believing... a work no less.

And where did you get this technique?

 

[Thief]

Yes .. belief can save..
But what belief? Does it matter what you believe? .. Of course it does!

It is belief which changes your behaviour .. if your behaviour is not affected by your belief, then how can you expect to arrive at a particular destination :candle:

I agree.

 

[Tom Terrific]

Why did people think Jesus was calling on Elijah when he said My God Why you Forsaken me? What did Jesus really say and why would people have expected Elijah? Perhaps Jesus was also expecting Elijah but felt forsaken. Jesus wouldn't have been forsaken by God, I would have figured that Jesus could have saved himself at any time. In what way was Jesus forsaken?

Good grief, people. Get real!

Christians believe that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, and that he took on the sins of the world in order to save mankind. Since he took on the sins of the world, God turned his face from him. As a man, he felt the loss of communion with God, and expressed the pain of this loss. He wasn't trying to fulfill prophesy; he was just being real.

I am not a Christian, so maybe my thoughts don't count for much. But, really, people. Is this so hard to grasp? Have any of you felt disconnected from the divine? I know I have. Quit thinking of Jesus as someone not like you. Give him a break.