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Featured "My God! My God! Why Have You Forsaken Me!"

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Sunstone, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    What did Jesus mean when he cried out, "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me"? Did he truly feel forsaken? If so, why? Had God really forsaken him, or was that just his perception?
     
  2. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    He was quoting the start of the 22nd Psalms. As it was explained to me by a Rabbi it was the custom of the Hebrews to quote the start of the a Psalm in lieu of reciting the entire chapter.
     
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  3. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    Gospel says that Spirit entered body of Jesus at baptism, Cosmic Spirit, Cosmic Spirit is not subject to physical death, physical body of Jesus is.
     
    #3 socharlie, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Jehovah had to remove His spirit, i.e., His power, from Jesus in order for Jesus to die, and he had never experienced that feeling before, being without God's power in him. Even in his pre-human existence up in heaven (John 17:5), Jesus had never been without his Father's sipirit operating on him.
     
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  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    To me Jesus was both God and Man in one. In order to lift humanity, he had to experience life as a man would while simultaneously experiencing himself as God. By saying what he did, he was speaking as a man who was being unjustly crucified.
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Yes Psalm 22 begins with David's petitions....but why would Jesus be quoting those words?

    As @Hockeycowboy has said, Jesus had enjoyed his Father's protection and blessing for the whole of his existence....but in this final day as a human, as his life was ebbing away, Jesus felt his Father withdraw his spirit in order for his son to pay the ultimate price for mankind. He had to allow his son to die.

    Remember Abraham's willingness to offer his precious son?....This is a human illustration of what it was like for God to willingly offer his son's life to pay for what Adam did to his children. It would have been a very difficult thing for both Father and son to do, but necessary for God's law to be carried out.

    If you understand the role of a redeemer in Israel, it helps in our understanding of what Jesus did to pay our debt.

    See Ransom — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
     
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  7. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    This, AND the fact that Jesus was dying for the remission of... SIN!

    What is sin? Sin is separation from God.

    At the moment of His death, Jesus felt the full impact of that separation from God, as the sin of the world was placed on his shoulders--and He could not remain in the presence of God for those last few moments.
     
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  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Then who was Jesus speaking about when he recited the Sh'ma?
     
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  9. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Oh, and I suppose YOU never talk about yourself?
     
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  10. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That depends with transliteration you use. The one that says, "lama sabachthani" means something like, "why did you complicate me?"
    he. hehe. hehehehehe.
     
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  11. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Explain this Avodah zarah or move along
     
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  12. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Can you make your request in English? I mean, other than the "move along" part. I'd like to know what I'm giving up before I choose.
     
  13. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    You're on the internet use google to google the term Avodah Zarah
     
  14. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    So I guess that's a "no"?
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Psalm 22:1,24 "For the LORD hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of The Afflicted, neither hath He HID HIS FACE FROM HIM, but when He cried to Him, He heard."

    [Exodus 12:3,5 Ezekiel 39:29; 40:1b,4 Exodus 10,12,14 John12:27,28; 17:1,4,5 Psalm139:12,15,16]

    Mark 15:34,35 [Exodus12:3:5 Mark7:32-35]
    καὶ τῇ ἐνάτῃ ὥρᾳ ἐβόησεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς φωνῇ μεγάλῃ
    At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

    Ἐλωῒ Ἐλωῒ λαμὰ σαβαχθανεί;

    ὅ ἐστιν μεθερμηνευόμενον
    which is, being interpreted,

    Ὁ Θεός μου ὁ Θεός μου,
    My God, my God,

    εἰς τί ἐγκατέλιπές με;
    separated You Me unto this? / put You Me behind the veil for this?

    Jesus' perception of the reality was that his Father did not forsake Him, but that He sanctified / separated / "set Him apart unto it" -- unto THIS which happened AS He was SPEAKING TO and was GIVING his spirit INTO THE HANDS OF HIS FATHER, there, present as "The Presence of the LORD" Himself on the cross dying the death of death!
     
    #15 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Quoting:
    "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
    -- Galileo Galilei
     
  17. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    "George Lamsa the Aramaic scholar translated Matthew 27:46 this way:

    And in the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice and said, Eli, eli, lmana shabachthani! which means My God, My God, for this I was kept!

    In a footnote; "This was my destiny for which I was born"

    So this I think suggests a different meaning than the one usually used.

    Lamsa had some interesting perspectives as he was a native Aramaic speaker." (Quoted - Formally posted by Arthra)

    Lamsa Bible - Lamsa Bible - Wikipedia

    Regards Tony
     
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  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It is cryptic, as is everything that is stated by Yeshua, it has tons of interlinking prophetic meaning... So as pointed out, he is citing Psalms 22, and everything that links with it.

    So the beginning of Psalms 22:1-22 is saying that David prophetically foretold, that the Jews would torture, and kill their own Messiah in the keyword usage Bulls of Bashan , Lions (Judah), brothers surround me, etc.

    The end part of Psalms 22:23-31 is the coming of the Messianic age, where Yeshua then was heard, and receives the guest list for who is invited by his actions.

    Isaiah 34:7 The wild oxen (Psalms 22:21) will come down with them, and the young bulls (Psalms 22:12) with the mighty bulls (Psalms 22:12); and their land will be drunken with blood, and their dust (Psalms 22:15 his death - Psalms 22:29 their death) made greasy with fat.

    Psalms 22 is paraphrased in Isaiah 34 which is judgement day, where all those 'stouthearted' will be removed by the Lake of Fire for disrespecting Yeshua.
    If we understand all the contexts, this is a shallow view of what is being put forward; nothing is ever as it seems...

    This was all foretold to be this way for the sake of removing the ungodly; angels don't die, thus Yeshua wasn't forsaken, the Jews were at that point.
    His perceptions were so advanced that they interlink with scriptures across the whole of the book, as if time doesn't exist, and someone has created this in a laboratory to test those who don't know how to read all context properly.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  19. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    It is the Hebrew word for strange belief or idolatry
     
  20. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Yeah, that's a pretty radical alteration, so it can probably be safely discarded.
     
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