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My feelings about death

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I am sorry to have to post this on Christmas. I would not suggest reading it unless you are comfortable with death.

I know this is supposed to be a joyous season, but not all people are joyous, and it bothers me that people are joyous when other people are not because something does not seem right about people being joyous when other people are out of work, ill, dying, or grieving the loss of a loved one.

This world is a dark and narrow place and I want nothing more than to be free of it, but I have my responsibilities and those I love, my cats and my husband and a few friends.

The first thing I thought of when I woke up today was on Christmas 2019 I had five cats that are no longer with me. This has been a terrible year for me because I have lost five of my family members to death. They were not human, they were my cats, but what’s the difference? Death is death and loss is loss and love is love.

I always get angry at God when I lose a cat because I blame God for death, and if you think about it, who else could be responsible for the death, unless I had been irresponsible? One could just say that death is part of life if they were an atheist…..

Job 1:21
King James Version

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.


I blame God for death, even if that is not rational, because I know life has to end so more life can be born. Christians don’t blame God for death, they blame Adam and Eve, because they believe that if they had not disobeyed God and eaten the apple, everyone would have lived forever in a physical body from that day forward, but how rational is that?

I want to add that I have had a kind of a breakthrough recently since a man on the Pet Loss Support forum said something and it clicked. He said: “Anyway, that's what I meant. I do not blame God for taking Marmalade away. I thank God for introducing me to Marmalade in the first place.”

After that I thought of the three cats I have gotten this year, and I know that God helped me find them. Because the circumstances under which I found them were very unusual it was highly unlikely for me to find them as I did. The same applies to all the other cats I found after previous cats died. I think about how precious they are and how much I love them all.

We are down by two cats but I am okay with that, for the first time in years. Also, for the first time in many, many years, we have no cats that are very ill and just hanging on to life thanks to all the special treatments my husband administers to keep them alive. However, any day now one of the two older cats that we still have left could be diagnosed with kidney and heart disease just like the other ones we lost. The only way to deal with it is just to shut my feelings down, which is what I have done for the most part. I am supposed to pretend it does not matter to me and be detached, like other Baha'is, but the problem is it does matter to me, as much or more than God or religion. They can judge me for that if they want to, I don't care.

In a way I am relieved that I do not to have this pall hanging directly over my head, not yet anyway, but the other part of me is so sad that I want to die, if I think about the cats I have lost. I have found that the only solution is to stay busy and focus in other people and the cats I have left. I cannot even read in the Pet Loss Support forum because it sets me off immediately and takes me right back to the trauma. I feel so deeply for other people, yet I feel helpless to be able to help them, and I do not want to say the wrong thing and make them feel worse, so it is best I do not go to that forum. I also feel guilty that I still have cats and most of them don’t have any but I doubt anyone there has lost five cats this year.

So last Wednesday night we went to the grocery store, and coming back to our house down the long gravel road we saw an ambulance. Actually, there were two ambulances and they were blocking the driveway so we parked on the property that is just before our property and walked home. The man who lives in that single wide mobile home has been near death for a very long time, as his kidneys and liver are failing, so he has people living there caring for him. I would guess he is in his late 30s or early 40s. I heard from someone who knows him that it was caused by alcoholism but I would never blame him, I just consider it very sad.

Not too long ago, he told my husband he is in so much pain he does not want to keep living. His parents live on the lot below our lot on the lake and they are such nice people. I cannot even imagine what they must be going through. I don’t even know if he is still alive. I heard from his caretakers that he was taken to the hospital, but he might have died that night. They are Christians and they believe in heaven, but what good does it do? Well, maybe it does them more good than it does me. I don't like it when people say “well, he is in heaven now” as if it does not matter that someone died! I also do not like it when someone in the Baha’i community dies and the Baha’is say almost gleefully “he went to the Abha Kingdom” as if he just took off on a trip to Europe. I understand that is what they believe, but I consider it insensitive to share that in a community e-mail.

If it does not matter if people die, why all the fuss about the number of people who have died in this pandemic, and why do all these valiant health care workers try to save lives and take care of these patients until the very end of their lives? I believe it does matter of people die and I think some religious people minimize physical death and I think they should keep their opinions to themselves because not everyone believes as they do. There is something arrogant about this attitude… “We know where we are going, too bad you don’t know.” They do not have to come out and say that, it is implicit in their attitude.

That said, I know where I am going after I die and that it is a lot better than this world, but I would never impose that belief upon anyone, although I will share it if people are interested, because this is a religious forum. But I would never say it does not “matter” if someone dies, because every life matters, whether it is a human or an animal.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Wow, Susan, that's a lot of thoughts about death. I'll just say that it appears that whatever your pain and sadness right now, you are making progress in my opinion, and that is what really matters.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Very nuanced take.
We must all eventually come to terms with death if we are to live sane lives. To detach is to deny one’s humanity. Those cats were your family. Allow grief to occur and then you can attain lofty philosophical ambitions all you like.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wow, Susan, that's a lot of thoughts about death. I'll just say that it appears that whatever your pain and sadness right now, you are making progress in my opinion, and that is what really matters.
Thanks Duane...Glad to hear from you and see your face, and thanks for not saying "this is a test."

Do Baha'is even understand how insensitive it is to say that, and how arrogant, because they don't know if it is a test or not. Only God knows. This is what the Baha'i Faith does to some people, makes them into robots who cannot even think for themselves but rather they just "believe" in the Writings, according to their interpretation.

I do not know if I told you the reason I originally came to Planet Baha'i eight years ago. I'll never forget it. At that time, I had never been on an internet forum before, I did not even know what a forum was. Then one day in my grief over a cat loss, I was doing a web search and I came across a posting on a forum where a Baha'i was telling another Baha'i who had just lost her cat that when she became more detached and more spiritual the loss of a cat wouldn't bother her anymore. I still cry when I think of this, I am crying now, because of the amount of hurt a comment like that can cause. How arrogant can one person be, how self-righteous?

Yes, I am blaming God less and less, although I cannot break away totally from logic and logically speaking if God is responsible for life, God is also responsible for death, unless someone was negligent or a murderer and caused that death. Why not just call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Death hurts those left behind, that hurt lessens but never goes away.
I suppose it's part of being a caring being.
Good to see you. As I always say, atheists generally have more understanding and compassion than believers who always try to gloss suffering and death over with some religious apologetic.

But of course it is those who are left behind that hurt and sometimes that hurt never goes away.
I know that because I watch a lot of true crime dramas and I see parents who have lost a child.
 

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
While I see your point, I personally see death as a gift. The chronic psychological and physical pain I am in right now [and had been for a long time] is just downright unbearable to me. The only thing that has stopped me from committing suicide, like an acquaintance of mine did, is the fact that I have a family to take care of, and if I am gone, they'll suffer far more than they already have. However, once I responsibilities are complete, I'd LOVE to embrace death and go to eternal sleep and/or reunite with the source/God of my and our being.

Many of my family members and friends have passed away, and I am HAPPY they passed away because they were living a life worse than death, just like me. I relish death because it frees us from agony. Their suffering is a thing of a past, and no longer exists just like any nightmare cease to exist once we wake up.

That is not to say death should be sought after. If you have come to this battlefield called "life", then fight until the very end until there is nothing left in you to fight. Keep fighting until the bell rings, no matter how much it hurts. No matter the severity of the agony that comes with life.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
How do I feel about death?
Not looking forward to it
Hope it isn't horribly uncomfortable going through it.
Ditto on that.
Totally unconcerned about after it
I am concerned because I know it is not THE END and I have no idea what is in the next world.
I generally do not like change, even if it is for the better, as you can see in my OP.
I also don't like the idea of living forever.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
We've had fur people, both cats and dogs, almost since we were married 50+ years ago but never lost so many so quickly as you have, @Trailblazer

When we love deeply, the other becomes part of us. When they die, the part of us that was them is ripped away. How could that not be deeply painful. And emotional pain can be stronger and longer-lasting than physical pain
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
While I see your point, I personally see death as a gift. The chronic psychological and physical pain I am in right now [and had been for a long time] is just downright unbearable to me. The only thing that has stopped me from committing suicide, like an acquaintance of mine did, is the fact that I have a family to take care of, and if I am gone, they'll suffer far more than they already have. However, once I responsibilities are complete, I'd LOVE to embrace death and go to eternal sleep and/or reunite with the source/God of my and our being.

Many of my family members and friends have passed away, and I am HAPPY they passed away because they were living a life worse than death, just like me. I relish death because it frees us from agony. Their suffering is a thing of a past, and no longer exists just like any nightmare cease to exist once we wake up.

That is not to say death should be sought after. If you have come to this battlefield called "life", then fight until the very end until there is nothing left in you to fight. Keep fighting until the bell rings, no matter how much it hurts. No matter the severity of the agony that comes with life.
I fully understand your sentiments about this life and longing for death. For some of us the pain never seems to send. Just as I thought I might have a reprieve I now have another cat that looks ill. I went to find the antibiotics that I had leftover from another cat that died before we could even administer them and I found out the powder had been mixed by the vet so they were no good because they had not been refrigerated. My trauma was so great when she died last September that I did not even think it check if the antibiotic had been mixed and I put it in the cupboard so I would not have to be reminded of her. So now I have one more packet of pills I could use since they can be used far beyond their expiration date but I don’t know if I want to use those because they are all I have left. Merry Christmas.

Like you, I won’t kill myself because I have my husband and the cats to consider, so it would be selfish to end my life; but also I know I have more work to do in myself before I die and also I have hope that things will eventually get better… I sure don’t know WHY I have hope, as there is no reason to, since things just keep going on the way they have been for the most part, with only small improvements and no real hope for the future.

Why I can’t deal with all these cat losses without is the hundred-dollar question, but now that I have found the Pet Loss forum I know I am not the only one who suffers this way. I have judged myself only because some religious people have judged me. I am a normal human being with feelings so I hurt when I lose a loved one. When religious people say it is a test or that God is trying to teach me a lesson that is just cruel and insensitive as well as arrogant because nobody knows what God is “doing” at any time. They have no idea if it is a test and they have no idea the torment I endure, so it is best for them not to say anything. I already know what they believe and that is their right, and I doubt they will ever change because of their religious indoctrination. Nevertheless, all their messages and the hurt it has caused me is just added to the grief from my losses and it plays over and over again in my head.

Anyhow, I am a GIS Technician by trade but later in life I went back to school and got a Masters degree in Counseling Psychology, so I also have expertise in that field. I also have a lot of experience dealing with life’s problems, especially issues with my career and job losses, so please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. You can send me a Conversation anytime you like.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
We've had fur people, both cats and dogs, almost since we were married 50+ years ago but never lost so many so quickly as you have, @Trailblazer

When we love deeply, the other becomes part of us. When they die, the part of us that was them is ripped away. How could that not be deeply painful. And emotional pain can be stronger and longer-lasting than physical pain
Thanks for understanding. I have had Persian cats since 1983, and when I got married in 1985 we only had three cats. We gave one to my mother so then we only had two for many years. We did not lose any of those cats until about the year 2000, as I recall. After that we got a breeding pair, and then we had kittens that we kept from litters we did not sell. Unfortunately, these cats carried HCM in their genes, so many of the kittens and cats died young, Of course I never bred them after I realized they carried HCM but by then it was too late. They were our cats.

Sine the year 2000 we have lost upwards of 30 cats, I lost count, but we have never lost five cats in one year. How can one recover when they have no chance to recover before another cat dies?

Many people do not realize that emotional pain can be stronger and longer-lasting than physical pain. I think the reason is twofold. Either they have not suffered much emotional pain and/or they have used things to cover it up; addictions or attachments to the material world. Either way, the following applies:

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Cooky

Veteran Member
My understanding, after hearing people speak who were in ICU, is that we can fight it. Death apparently only comes when we submit to the point that death is preferable. Though I wouldn’t "know"...

...So when it comes, it often will apparently be a chosen path. At which time, we will come to embrace it... Either that, or we will be so lacking of consciousness that it will take us unknowingly.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
My understanding, after hearing people speak who were in ICU, is that we can fight it. Death apparently only comes when we submit to the point that death is preferable. Though I wouldn’t "know"...

...So when it comes, it often will apparently be a chosen path. At which time, we will come to embrace it... Either that, or we will be so lacking of consciousness that it will take us unknowingly.
So you believe that humans or animals chose death?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
So you believe that humans or animals chose death?

I do, at least sometimes. I heard a COVID survivor who spent a month in ICU, who stressed that if you catch it, you must "fight".

...I pondered on that... What does she mean "fight"..? How can you fight death..? But she said it with conviction. I saw it in her eyes. It was the only thing she wanted to say.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I do, at least sometimes. I heard a COVID survivor who spent a month in ICU, who stressed that if you catch it, you must "fight".

...I pondered on that... What does she mean "fight"..? But she said it with conviction. I saw it in her eyes. It was the only thing she wanted to say.
I agree that fighting can have a big impact on whether one survives, and that applies to more than just physical diseases. ;)

But sometimes no matter how hard one fights, they lose the battle, as when the heart or lungs give out.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The thing I think of is that it is better to live and have had the experience of love then to have never known love at all. Goodbye is dreadful though. I don't have to worry about heaven and hell though either. I don't think heaven and hell are even worth consideration at this point.

If an afterlife exists then love is its gate. If it doesn't exist then I'll just have to be contented by the memories of what once was. Having experienced loss so many times I avoid the dreadful feelings and take comfort that one day I will follow suit and join them in the great goodbye.

The other side of that is to appreciate the one's that are still here.

I'm trying to think that life and death is all about the perspective I take on it. I try to see it in positive light. Living forever on planet earth in the human condition is not desirable for me personally.

However I can envision the kind of afterlife that I would love to live forever for. But that's all speculation and imagination to me.

It would be worth all the suffering. But are all humans deserving of having death to contend with. Probably not! But there are worse things going on in the world than death.

I sure hope there's a needed lesson to all humans go through. Animals too!

If there's no lesson then oh well.

Never found any guarantees or guideposts to living life. It is quite the adventure.

Sorry, can't help much here! :(
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I agree that fighting can have a big impact on whether one survives, and that applies to more than just physical diseases. ;)

But sometimes no matter how hard one fights, they lose the battle, as when the heart or lungs give out.

That's true, though in those situations you lose consciousness... So you lose your ability to fight by default.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I always get angry at God when I lose a cat because I blame God for death, and if you think about it, who else could be responsible for the death, unless I had been irresponsible? One could just say that death is part of life if they were an atheist…..

Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of deaththat is, the devil— emphasis mine.
 
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