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My Dilema...

Discussion in 'Catholic DIR' started by BIG gibb, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. BIG gibb

    BIG gibb Member

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    I have been baptised Catholic by my parents. I never had a my first communion nor have i made my comfirmation (obviously). I went to a catholic high school and learned a lot i didn't get to learn when i was a kid. At this exact time was the huge amount of accusations of molestation. It didn't help that at my school we had a brother who was accused of this. As you can guess i live in the northeast. Anyway i attended church throughout high school because i guess i found religion there.

    So now that i am out of high school and attending college i don't attend the catholic church because i do not believe in the church part of religion anymore. I also hate the fact the religion is against homosexuality. i am straight myself but i have gay friends a i fully support gay marraige in the states.

    so after all of that this is my question...

    am i even catholic? i dont go to church...i dont believe when in church you have to do all of the standing up sitting down standing up shaking hands and all of that...plus on tp of that i dont believe in their stanc on homosexuality...

    any feedback would be great...thanks
     
  2. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find that it is very normal for you to be questioning a lot of things at your age. I am not Catholic and was raised Presbyterian. One thing I like about the Catholic Church is the ceremony. As we mature we tend to look more inward for our answers. I think the ceremony and ritual never loses it's meaning or impact. Happy hunting. The journey is a very exciting part of life.
     
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hiya Adam,

    Yep...... by your baptism and confirmation :

    1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

    1316 Confirmation perfects Baptismal grace; it is the sacrament which gives the Holy Spirit in order to root us more deeply in the divine filiation, incorporate us more firmly into Christ, strengthen our bond with the Church, associate us more closely with her mission, and help us bear witness to the Christian faith in words accompanied by deeds.



    Well, I live in Massachusetts, so I can relate..... I am a convert to the Catholic Church, having been confirmed this past Holy Saturday. Many have asked me why I would choose to join the Church in this horrible time in the Church's history. My reply to them is the same as to you: The sins of Priests etc. do not change the fact that Christ founded a Church and I want to be a member of that Church...... the CATHOLIC church.
    Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


    Neither the gates of hell or some pervert Priest will change what Christ himself set in place.

    Well, as far as not wanting to be part of the "church" part of religion, I can not relate. It is the Eucharist that I can not live without. Not being able to receive communion during the year that I was waiting for confirmation was agony to me. To deny yourself the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is beyond my understanding.

    As far as homosexuality........ my sister is a lesbain. Has been all her life (she knew it about age 5)...... so again, I can relate to what you are going through.
    You have to understand that the Church can only go by what Christ tought...... painful as it might be to your homosexual friends, it is the truth and it can not be hidden because it makes you personally upset.

    I will pray for you. College is a tough time for Catholics.... sin and temptation are often mistaken for a "liberal" and "open" lifestyles and many fall from the true faith.

    I welcome any other questions and I hope you continue to search for the truth.

    Peace,
    Scott





     
  4. BIG gibb

    BIG gibb Member

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    thanks for the reply. so you were just confirmed last week? interesting. i also know that you arent supposed to take the eucharist(sp?) if you havent been confirmed so what if you did? i know a lot of people while in high school when we had maditory mass would take it and not even be catholic...i guess it was the ultimate disrespect.

    come to think about it i dont agree with anything the catholic church does or says. i understand when you say that it doesnt matter what the priiests do because its the church that jesus built and all of that. but my question to you is yes he built the church and all but why the catholic church? they seem to contradict their message. they have all of these expensive things inside the church and then talk about helping the poor...they should help out more they have tons of money...well not now after the lawsuits...

    i just think if i am going to continue to have a relationship with God it wont be within a catholic church. i may find it in another denomination of a christianity or i might just comepletely get out of christianity as i like a lot of the eastern beliefs...

    oh well...very lost...glad i found this place because i might actually find what i am looking for now
     
  5. phantom

    phantom Member

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    i know the exact feeling. just when you think you've got your ideas under control, a blatant contradiction blows up in your face.

    peace
     
  6. InHisService

    InHisService New Member

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    Hi, I was raised in the Catholic church too, but as i grew up, Iwas dissapointed by all the ritual that everyone was doing but then living their life just like everyone else outside of Church (saint on Sunday, devil on Monday-Saturday)..
    Then I found out that Jesus doesn't like ritual and memorized prayers etc... either.
    He wants a real relationship with us, personally. We don't need someone in between like a priest or a saint. Just aski Him inside your heart, and He promises to be your Savior. As for as the homosexuals, Jesus loves and died for them too.
    But it is a sin that needs to be repented of just like adultery or stealing or any other sin.

    InHisService
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hiya Adam,

    Nope...... this past Holy Saturday. You DO know when that is, right?

    :eek:

    Are you sure that you are Catholic????? WOW.... Catholic HS nowadays don't seem to be doing a good job educating young Catholic...... what a shame.

    2000 years of faith, history, and people dying to defend the Church and this is the best question you could come up with??????

    They should help out MORE? Name one church on the planet that does more for the poor. Name 10 Christian groups combined that do........ go ahead, look it up.

    Well, I will pray for you. Happy hunting. :(

    Peace in Christ,
    Scott
     
  8. civilcynic

    civilcynic Member

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    Scott,

    I can appreciate the strength of your faith in the Catholic Church but don't let it blind you to the reality of the institution. Your statement that the Catholic Church has done more for the poor than any other group is without substantiation. It certainly ignores the hatred, intolerance and even the deaths of countless people throughout the centuries which has resulted from the Church's teachings and does not address the motivation behind these so-called good deeds (which is to convert people to Catholicism).

    Have you forgotten the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc;? What about the more recent
    scandal of child molesters in the Church? The Church hierarchy for years knew about many of these perverts being within their ranks and did nothing but protect them moving these child molesters from parish to parish where they continued their perversions on the unsuspecting and innocent faithful.

    As for the 'wonderful' help the Church provides to the poor......does the Church do this with no strings attached or are they using the 'aid' they give to the poor as a means to preomote their religious beliefs and agenda. Look closely at the Catholic missions and you will find that no person in need ever gets a hand-out from the Catholic Church without having to be subjected to a religious promotion of some sort.

    Please note, however, I do not hold this view point on the Catholic Church alone...I believe that most, if not all organized religions do the same.

    I think it is very important that whatever religious faith one has in God should not be confused with the institution which is made up of mere mortals. The Church as an institution should guide and support not demand and threaten.

    I was raised Catholic and had 12 yrs. of Catholic Schooling. After experiencng the Catholic Church for 48 yrs., I cannot in good conscience support or condone the beliefs and actions of the Catholic Church which has become increasingly hateful and intolerant of anyone who dares question their authority. The Church can condemn personal/political beliefs as well as any of my actions...I don't care....I'll let God be my judge not the Catholic Church.
     
  9. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    civilcynic,

    Just because you don't agree with me does not mean I am blind or that you are correct. Your reality is just that, YOURS...... it might not be the TRUTH. ;)

    THIS IS NOT A DEBATE FORUM.

    Feel free to post something over there if you would like.

    Your entire post is filled with YOUR unsubstantiated opinions and views of history.

    Start a topic over on the debate forum if you would like me to respond.

    Peace in Christ,
    Scott
     
  10. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    ***Mod Post***

    Please no debating in the discussion forums. Your thoughts here should be in one of the debate forums. This forum is for learning about Catholicism.
     
  11. BIG gibb

    BIG gibb Member

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    of course i know when that was. i missed the holy part in your post. this was my favorite time in school. we got holy thursday and good friday off not to mention we always had the next monday off which may or may not be of any importance.

    thats what i mean i am catholic because thats what i was baptised. My school did a great job teaching about religion IN GENERAL. they never forced anythign on us even in the year (sophmore) we had a class called chirch history one semester and the next church today. so i understand everythign abotu the church but the whole of christianity follow christ...

    so again i ask...why the catholic church

    nothign wrong with the question. when i walk into a catholic church i feel like its donald trumph's foyer rather then a place to worship God.

    without debating i do understand that the catholic church does alot. but not enough if they can afford to have what they do.

    at my alma mater the teachers have a saying "the brothers take a vow of poverty and the teachers live it" the brothers all get brand new cars every 3-4 years. they get all free food and free board plus a check each week. if they could get married id be the first in line...

    well thank you...
     
  12. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Well Adam, since most of your post has nothing in it but your opinions without fact or reasoning...... I will try to answer the one real question you posted.

    Let me answer from the Catechism you know so well.............. :rolleyes:

    750 To believe that the Church is "holy" and "catholic," and that she is "one" and "apostolic" (as the Nicene Creed adds), is inseparable from belief in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the Apostles' Creed we profess "one Holy Church" (Credo . . . Ecclesiam), and not to believe in the Church, so as not to confuse God with his works and to attribute clearly to God's goodness all the gifts he has bestowed on his Church.

    813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit." The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body." The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity." Unity is of the essence of the Church:


    What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."

    IN BRIEF

    866 The Church is one: she acknowledges one Lord, confesses one faith, is born of one Baptism, forms only one Body, is given life by the one Spirit, for the sake of one hope (cf. Eph 4:3-5), at whose fulfillment all divisions will be overcome.

    867 The Church is holy: the Most Holy God is her author; Christ, her bridegroom, gave himself up to make her holy; the Spirit of holiness gives her life. Since she still includes sinners, she is "the sinless one made up of sinners." Her holiness shines in the saints; in Mary she is already all-holy.

    868 The Church is catholic: she proclaims the fullness of the faith. She bears in herself and administers the totality of the means of salvation. She is sent out to all peoples. She speaks to all men. She encompasses all times. She is "missionary of her very nature" (AG 2).

    869 The Church is apostolic. She is built on a lasting foundation: "the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (Rev 21:14). She is indestructible (cf. Mt 16:18). She is upheld infallibly in the truth: Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successors, the Pope and the college of bishops.

    870 "The sole Church of Christ which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, . . . subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its visible confines"(LG 8).

    That, my young friend, is why.

    Peace,
    Scott
     
  13. BIG gibb

    BIG gibb Member

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    well thank you for responding...that must have taken a lot of research unless you know it that well...

    then the only other question i have if the "church is catholic" then why exactly in other denominations of christianity we have churches that are obviously not catholic.

    im sorry for all of the questions. i am just really intrigued that you joined the catholic church in what most people would say is the worst time.
     
  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Adam,

    Don't ever be sorry for asking me questions.... this is what I do for a living (teach the Catholic faith)..... among other things............;)

    No problem at all....... like I said I teach this stuff and I can cut and paste with the best of 'em!!

    Well, first let me say this, and I hope you don't get offended by it:

    You were not educated very well in the Catholic faith.

    I only say this to let you know that your questions and your search for the truth outside the Catholic Chuch should INCLUDE the Catholic Church!!

    You owe it to yourself to learn about the faith, even if you have to do it by yourself.

    Ok, as far as your question:

    830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." The Church is catholic in a double sense:
    First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church." In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation" which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. The Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

    catholic = universal
    Catholic = The Catholic Church

    838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."

    Again, my friend, this is basic teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS STUFF. YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOUGHT THIS.

    I continue to harp on this because I don't want you to give up on the Church just because you don't understand it.

    I will help you as much as I can........

    Peace,
    Scott

    by the way, the quote below means : "All, with Peter to Jesus through Mary!"
     
  15. BIG gibb

    BIG gibb Member

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    No i wasnt taught well because they didnt force it down our throats. we took time on different religions. now i would know this stuff if i actually went to church as a kid but i didnt. that was my parents doing. so i never made my first communion and i never made my confirmation. when i went to a catholic high school it wasnt for the religious part of the school. it was for the nationally recognized academics and athletics we had. the religion part was on the side. we did take a variety of courses in religion which included classes on the jewish faith, world religions and i chose to take a science and religion course. there were others such as prayer and meditation. we also took a course in social justice and one called love and the bible i believe.

    so as you can see my knowledge or lack thereof is because they didnt go into detail about catholicism.

    so i guess thats why i am here...to learn.

    where do you teach?
     
  16. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Adam,

    Good for you........... at least you are on a journey......... many people on this earth go through life in a daze without a care or clue about the big questions of life.

    I teach adult catechism to the RCIA in my diocese and parish, as well as helping with a class this coming year at the High School.

    Peace,
    Scott
     
  17. civilcynic

    civilcynic Member

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    Sorry, no offense was meant.....actually forgot which forum I was in!

    Once again, didn't mean to ignore any rules.....I do apologize.
     
  18. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Hey, no biggie civilcynic. Just remember that if there is an issue you'd like to debate on further, you are always welcome to start a new thread in the Debates forums. :)
     
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