My Daughters Teacher

[linwood]

But the fact of the matter is... people look down on you for really believing. As a test of this, start talking about the existence of Satan to someone, like you really believe he exists. They will start to treat you differently, and maybe even shake their head as they walk away.

I can see this NetDoc.
Hell, I see it in myself and it must be hard but try to remember that most people don`t give as much thought to these topics as the people who frequent this forum.

Someone who hasn`t actively tried to stop the reaction you speak of would do it as naturally as breathing.

What would you think of someone speaking of Leprachuans as if they were real?
It`s the same thing to a non-believer.

Now I only roll my eyes at Christians who know I`m going to roll my eyes before they even say anything.
In other words those that I know well and who know me well.

It`s ok though, they return the favor often enough.

 

[martha]

Dear Linwood,
I often wonder what I was thinking when I was only four years into this world. Unfortunately, I have virtually no memories of my childhood, perhaps only a handful. It all seems like a dream, another person's life. Perhaps I am too focussed on the now, living this day. Yesterday is gone, I can't change it, tomorrow may not come, why worry, today is all I have, moment to moment.
I think I will start a thread...What are your earliest memories?

Children today seem to have so much more on the ball than children of my generation.(I'm 50) Perhaps it is their exposure to TV, movies and computers.Perhaps we speak more openly in front of them. Do they really understand? Or are they just repeating what they hear? I'm talking about the little ones 4 and up to 11 or so. I wonder. I have no children so I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I have been around children though and they never cease to amaze me. There used to be a show on TV called " Kids say the darndest things", the host was Art Linkletter. Boy am I showing my age. I really loved to watch it, but their responses were childish in comparisson to the answers you get from some kids today.

Anyway luv, you hang in there. If you weren't an athiest, I would say, may God help you. Oops I just said it.:tsk: Oh well, take what you need and leave the rest.

I think you are a wonderful parent and perhaps you and your little one will grow together. Maybe some day she will teach you something, eh?

I will always be on your side, for you are a lovely person.

Joyfully,
Martha

 

[linwood]

Dear Linwood,

I think I will start a thread...What are your earliest memories?

That would be a good thread, I can remember some things back to 5 but thats as far as my memory goes and that far back its kind of fuzzy

Do they really understand? Or are they just repeating what they hear? I'm talking about the little ones 4 and up to 11 or so.

They understand and retain things that are a constant surprise to me.

There used to be a show on TV called " Kids say the darndest things", the host was Art Linkletter. Boy am I showing my age.

I remember the show too.
It was funny.

Anyway luv, you hang in there. If you weren't an athiest, I would say, may God help you. Oops I just said it.:tsk:

I guess it can`t hurt can it?

I think you are a wonderful parent and perhaps you and your little one will grow together. Maybe some day she will teach you something, eh?

Thanks Martha, she already has taught me the most important things I`ve ever known.
She also re-teaches me things I`ve forgotten or neglected.

It may sound corny but I am able to see the world through the eyes of a 4 year old.
It gives me back the magic of the world the cynicism of age had taken away from me.

Whens the last time you spent 30 minutes staring at a tadpole in a bucket waiting for it to turn into a frog?

Those are the really good things.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I didn't say it earlier... but I also think you did quite well!

 

[Prima]

I don't think you're being hypocritical at all. The teacher was not taking advantage of your daughter's age, was not teacher her anything harmful - even if you were a very conservative Christian, I doubt you would have a problem with it.

In general, faeries are a more 'this is pretty and I like it' thing than a 'I believe in these' thing. I would say that chances are, the faeries are not part of her beliefs.

I would say, almost definitely Wicca. The whole 'Mother Earth' bit is a very Wiccan idea.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking her. If she has a 'Pagan and Proud' sticker, she probably doesn't mind talking about it!

 

[linwood]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking her. If she has a 'Pagan and Proud' sticker, she probably doesn't mind talking about it!

Thats a good point.

Thanks Prima.

 

[martha]

Dear Linwood,

Perhaps you should consider changing your signature to..." My 4 year old gives me back the magic of the world" or continue w/the cynicism of age has taken away, or some paraphrase of that.

When I hear you and others speak of their children, it makes me sad that I will never have that experience. Then again, I never had to change a dirty diaper, and I will never have to teach a child how to drive! Maybe for me this is a good thing. I made my poor dad nuts when he tried to teach me how to drive! Your time will come too, beloved Linwood.:biglaugh:

 

[Prima]

*thinks about Prima as a child*

You all just be glad you never had to deal with ME! I raised hell! But I'm still teaching my parents. I don't think that ever stops.

*watches tadpoles*

Martha, you can be my adopted mom


Kids never cease to amaze me, either.

 

[Melody]

I can guarantee you if she came home telling me her teavcher told her God made the earth and Jesus died for her sins I`d have lost it and let loose on the pre-school.

Am I being hypocritical here or does the fact that this Earth based religious tale meshes with my own beliefs justify my actions?

If my child came home and said his teacher told him that God made the earth and Jesus died for her sins, I'd probably react the way you did with your 4 year old and the pagan belief. It meshes with my own views and so not a problem.

If, on the other hand, my child came home and told me that his teacher said that God is a myth and that there is no heaven, I'd probably react the same way you would towards the Christian belief. I'd have a chat with the teacher and if that didn't do it, I'd go higher up.

Have to admit though that if he came home with a Mother Earth story, I'd just smile.

 

[martha]

Dear Prima,

Your offer is accepted. I am now your adopted mom. But mind you now, mom can give as good as she gets! Hell raiser, eh? All you need is love, unconditional, and I'm just the girl to give it to you!
I wonder just how you could amaze me. Tell me of your youth. Better yet, my dear, tell me of your earliest memories. I have posted a thread with that very topic. Take a look on last days posts.
It is good that you are here, it is good to hear from you.

Joyfully, your new adoptive mom,
Martha

 

[kreeden]

Linwood , this topic bothers me . I would be very concerned if a young child of mine came home , that excited about any ideology . I would have to talk to the teacher to find out what she / he was teaching , and more important , WHY they were teaching that . A child that age is very imprintable . Now , where is nothing wrong with teaching children ideas , as long as those ideas are balanced with other ideas . If I wanted my child in a religious school , then that would be where I would put them . And that goes for any religion .

However , give the teacher a chance to explain .

 

[martha]

If I were a parent, and my child came home to tell me that teacher said.....such and such and therefore.....I am sure that I might take offence. The question is to me, ...What are teachers suppossed to teach? Is it to be strictly reading, writing and arithmetic? What about Social Studies? What catagory does that fit into? What are Social Studies, exactly? Social seems to pertain to society, and that we deem to teach what is acceptable to society, then we need to teach all concepts of it, no? I am sure this is a bone of contention with many. How else do we learn? How many of you have been taught certain things by your parents, and then come to find out, in the world ,that there are people with different understandings of a certain concept? How many of you in your growing have found a different truth? Who taught you that truth. So my question is, do we restrain our teachers from sharing thier opinions? If so , then our teachers should be instructed from the start, " You will not train your charges with your own beliefs" You will stick to the program. Who's program is it? Who makes up the rules? I really do not know. It is truly amazing to me that the world's children have made good choices up to this point. At least for the most part. Again I revert to .. What is your earliest memory? Our memories are part of what shapes us. Our teachers are part of our earliest memories, teaching and development.

Boy oh boy, am I rambling tonight. Somebody stop me!

I'm finished,
Martha

 

[kreeden]

I agree with what you and others are saying Martha . And if the school BALANCES it with other views , then I have no problem . However , I believe that it is the parents right to set standards for their children ... no , not right , duty . Not the school's . Not the government . And of course , never having children of my own , I am an expert on the subject .... But seriously , I do feel strongly about parents raising children as they see fit . And in time , the children will make their own decissions . Hopefully .

A balance of different views would be best , in my opinion . And that is what I would be concerned about .

 

[Druidus]

Tell her about the forums, first of all!

Secondly, "Mother Earth" is not neccessarily a religious term. If she said Dannu, Gaia, Gaea, etc, then for sure, yeah, but otherwise, maybe not. You can't argue that Earth is, in a way, our mother. If she said that Mother Earth was a God (or anything remotely like it, even if your daughter couldn't understand "Deity" at her age), than you'd have real reason to complain.

 

[michel]

Just read the forum Spinks... like the one on Does Satan exist. There is plenty of eveidence of a double standard of tolerance.

Day to day life? I bet most Christians are reticent about sharing what they believe due to the labels others put on them. Peer pressure is HUGE. It's OK to go to church as long as it doesn't interfere with your life. I was publically "disowned" by my mother when I became a Christian. I mean on the radio, she said that the church had stolen me and I was no longer her son. She meant that too. Did I go home preaching "hellfire and brimstone"??? Nope. I just believed that God is really God. Just this last week when I brought my son to visit her in the hospital (she had her shoulder replaced), she tried to get him to promise to NOT follow in my footsteps. No, my son isn't a Christian, and I will never force him to be. That's his choice, not mine.

But the fact of the matter is... people look down on you for really believing. As a test of this, start talking about the existence of Satan to someone, like you really believe he exists. They will start to treat you differently, and maybe even shake their head as they walk away.

Hi NetDoc;
I was very upset at your telling us about your experiences with your mother. There is one thing though; sometimes zealotry is an indication of fear (Psychologically speaking).

Example; my older son says he hates money; one day I asked him 'Do you think your hate of money stems from a fear of becomming greedy ?"

He thought about it, and said "That had actually occurred to me; I just thought I was being silly thinking that."

The mind is very good at 'protecting itself' when something 'nasty' hits you in the face; do you think this might apply to your Mother ? Might she actually be - subconsciously - be worried that if she alloowed herself to accept the concept of Christianity, that it would clash violently with some of her own beliefs ?

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I think any taught religious "realities" before the age when a child can truly grasp and understand the concepts is child abuse in a sense, child molestation is a crime but the rape of a mind? what does that crime incur? It happens on a daily basis IMO, I don't think religion or beliefs should be taught or entertained until a child is old enough to understand and make decisions for themselves, but that requires a parent to teach them to think (which some don't even know how to themselves). Until then- let them be a child, let them play, let them learn the basics of what they need to survive in this world- after that they can make their own decisions, if they are interested in learning outside of the basics, I would not impede or encourage, they will find it on their own if they feel they need it no matter the belief or lack thereof.

 

[linwood]

Sorry I forgot about this thread.
I did have a talk with her teacher.
She is Pagan and holds an eclectic mixture of her own beliefs combined with a more popular Pagan culture.
The faeries are representative of familiars/spirits.

She never did however relate this "Mother Earth" concept to anything other than the Earth itself.
A way of giving the planet anthromorphic qualities the kids could better relate to.
I must admit it worked..very well as my daughter still talks about it.
I really do like this teacher.

I don't think religion or beliefs should be taught or entertained until a child is old enough to undertsand and make decisions for themselves,

A few years ago I would have agreed but they ask questions, lots of questions, LOTS AND LOTS of questions.
You have to tell them something and in doing so impart your own personal agenda on them even if you go out of your way not to.

It cannot be avoided because in so many ways parents are their Gods.
We clothe them, feed them, heal them, teach them, protect them.
The fact that we almost always have the answer to every question they ask is unbelievable to them.
It is Godlike when put into their perspective.
No matter how many times I tell my daughter" I could be wrong" it is incomprehensible to her that I could actually be wrong....she`s only 4.

When she was 3 she found me reading a JW Bible and asked what it was because it had no pictures.

I told her it was a book about God, she already knew of God because of her little Christian playmate.
She asked me if there is a God.
I answered and I quote...
"I don`t believe in a God honey but many people do."
"Nobody can know if there is a God or not so I might be wrong and they might be right. "

Two weeks ago we were in a bookstore looking through the kids books and came across a Bible stories book, she asked what it was because she liked the picture of Noahs Ark on the front.
I told her it was a book of stories about God.
She said "God`s not real."
I told her he might be and we just don`t know.
All of a sudden I (an atheist) was arguing for the possibilty of a deity to my child.
Not in a million years would I have believed I would be doing this in a public bookstore 5 years earlier...it`s crazy.

Now whether one wants to believe it or not this deeply bothers me.

I came to the realization of my own beliefs through a long arduous sometimes humiliating sometimes empowering study of the world around me.
It is very important to me that my child to work through the same or similar process.

I realise that as she ages she will form her own thoughts and opinions and that as long as I`m always open without directly indoctrinating her into anything she`ll be just fine as long as her only indoctrination is in "how" to think but it still bugs me that this type of thing happens and there`s no way around it.

 

[Prima]

I think kids understand things better than most adults do. They certainly have better priorities!

The best thing is to discussing things with kids in a way that they'll understand. Don't use big words and don't ramble, and you'll find that they're vastly intelligent.

The way to avoid indoctrination is to give both sides of the issue. I think you've done a lovely job

And it's best to talk to your kids about it before a fanatic does!

 

[kreeden]

It sounds as if you are doing a great job as a parent Linwood . I am glad that the teacher thing worked out .

 

[Yerda]

She never did however relate this "Mother Earth" concept to anything other than the Earth itself.
A way of giving the planet anthromorphic qualities the kids could better relate to.
I must admit it worked..very well as my daughter still talks about it.
I really do like this teacher.

It seems your daughter must a bit of art lover herself then Linwood if she remembered that painting well enough to seek it out.