My current version of Hinduism

[Jim]

Honestly, Jim, I have no idea what you're angry about.

I’ll try to explain. It looks to me like your forum character’s only interest in Baha’is is to find things to say about them that other people will disapprove of, and he does that in dishonest and irresponsible ways. Partly what angers me is that dishonesty and irresponsibility. Then when I lose my patience with that, he tries to pretend that he’s a poor innocent victim who’s doing nothing more than saying what he thinks, and I’m persecuting him only for that reason.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see see your character in the forum RP continually vaunting himself over others, and encouraging dishonest and malicious behavior in others, and associating all that with the name of Hinduism. I think that sullies and dishonors the name of Hinduism. Maybe I’m taking that too seriously. Maybe it doesn’t make anyone think any less of Hinduism than they already do, or maybe it doesn’t matter to you if it does. It does matter to me.

I am doing none of this. You are just ante-deluvian people still believing in God, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis in this 21st Century, creating new religions all the time and bringing more conflict to the world. You are totally out of date. Don't involve Hinduism or any other Indic religion in your ignorance. Is that too much to ask for

 

[Jim]

Now you are down to abusing. Why do you think we should take the .... who are defiling our religions (not just mine alone) in anyway other than that? We will give it to you in greater measure.

I’m not sure that you would want to try to resolve the conflict between you and me, but I’m not sure that you wouldn’t, so I want to tell you more about my side of it. If you aren’t interested, you can just ignore it

I like your forum character. There’s something very appealing to me in his personality. There are some things he does that I don’t like. One of them is continually vaunting himself over others. Another is encouraging some behavior of others that looks malicious, dishonest and irresponsible to me. Another is that even though he despises most of the world’s Hindus and most of Hinduism, he claims their virtues as his own, in vaunting himself over others. I dislike all of that in itself, but also because it might repel people from Hinduism. Another thing that I don’t like is that he’s trying to pretend that the only reason for my outbursts is because of what I think about Hindu beliefs, again dishonoring the name of Hinduism, which he mostly despises underneath a facade of approval, by using it to shield himself from criticism of his behavior.

That’s how it looks to me, from what I’ve seen your forum character doing over many weeks. Some or all of it might be untrue and unfair, but that’s how it looks to me.

If this looks like abuse to you, and it seems good and right to you to try to abuse me more than you think I’m abusing you, help yourself, but I would rather for you to tell me in what ways you think I’m wrong about your forum character. You did that partly already in one of your posts, and I liked that.

 

[Jim]

I am doing none of this. You are just ante-deluvian people still believing in God, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis in this 21st Century, creating new religions all the time and bringing more conflict to the world. You are totally out of date. Don't involve Hinduism or any other Indic religion in your ignorance. Is that too much to ask for

Okay. I saw that post after I published my post following it. From this, unless you say otherwise, I’ll assume that you don’t see your forum character doing any of what I’ve said, in that post, that I see him doing.

 

[Jim]

I am doing none of this. You are just ante-deluvian people still believing in God, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis in this 21st Century, creating new religions all the time and bringing more conflict to the world. You are totally out of date. Don't involve Hinduism or any other Indic religion in your ignorance. Is that too much to ask for

Are you including me, personally, the person who is writing this post to you, in all that? You’re telling me not to say what I think, if you disapprove of it? Yes, that’s too much to ask, and I won’t comply.

 

[Jim]

You are just ante-deluvian people still believing in God, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis in this 21st Century, creating new religions all the time and bringing more conflict to the world. You are totally out of date.

That’s an example of what I mean by your forum character’s contempt for most of the world’s Hindus and most of Hinduism.

(later) It’s also an example of what I mean by vaunting himself over others.

 

[Jim]

@Aupmanyav Another problem I see between you and me is your disapproval of me having any ideas about what Hindu scriptures say, outside of what you think that Hindus can think. That looks to me like drawing lines around what Hindus can think, which looks to me like contradicting yourself. Anyway, however much you disapprove of it, I’m not willing to confine my views of what Hindu scriptures say, to what you think Hindus can think.

I’m thinking that if there is any possibility of understanding between us, for now the best thing for me to do is to just say honestly what I think about what your forum character says and does.

 

[Jim]

Honestly, Jim, I have no idea what you're angry about. One post you're all conciliatory and then the next, you're angry. I never know which Jim is going to pop on the screen next.

It might have been better if I hadn’t vented my anger. Now that I did, it seems best to me, to try to explain as well as I can where it came from. That’s what I did in my post to you above. Now I want to say that there’s another Vinayaka that I’ve seen a few times in these forums, that I like very much.

I mostly try to avoid complaining about other people’s behavior. I don’t remember what excuse I used for venting my anger like I did, but now that I did, it seems better to me to try to get it all out on the table.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not a peacenik. Many a times Hindus erroneously go too far to avoid conflicts. I believe in Krishna saying give it back in the same manner as you get it. If you have the right to say whatever you want to say, and have said about Krishna; I have an equal right to express my views about Bahais, Bahaullah and the two who came later before the dynasty ended up instate.

"While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden — the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord — suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt Earth and Heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of God's honoured servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in Heaven and all who are on Earth saying: "By God! This is the best beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand."
Maid of Heaven - Wikipedia

Funny even for 1850s, and you believe it.

This is what was happening in science around the same time:

"Among the most influential ideas of the 19th century were those of Charles Darwin (alongside the independent researches of Alfred Russel Wallace), who in 1859 published the book The Origin of Species, which introduced the idea of evolution by natural selection. Another important landmark in medicine and biology were the successful efforts to prove the germ theory of disease. Following this, Louis Pasteur made the first vaccine against rabies, and also made many discoveries in the field of chemistry, including the asymmetry of crystals. In chemistry, Dmitri Mendeleev, following the atomic theory of John Dalton, created the first periodic table of elements. In physics, the experiments, theories and discoveries of Michael Faraday, Andre-Marie Ampere, James Clerk Maxwell, and their contemporaries led to the creation of electromagnetism as a new branch of science. Thermodynamics led to an understanding of heat and the notion of energy was defined."
19th century in science - Wikipedia

 

[Jim]

That is IMO a major hurdle for the Bahai Faith, which finds itself in the uneviable position of ... etc. etc.

Since I included you in my rant, and I’m trying to put all my cards on the table, I’ll tell you how this, and other things you say about Islam and the Baha’i Faith and their followers, look to me. They look to me like foolish, clownish, stubborn, willful ignorance; blatant and shameless bigotry; and glaring hypocrisy; defaming the name of Buddhism; and camouflaging all that with a way of saying things that creates an illusion of being educated and informed.

 

[Jim]

I am not a peacenik. Many a times Hindus erroneously go too far to avoid conflicts. I believe in Krishna saying give it back in the same manner as you get it. If you have the right to say whatever you want to say, and have said about Krishna; I have an equal right to express my views about Bahais, Bahaullah and the two who came later before the dynasty ended up instate.

"According to Bahá'u'lláh, it was during his imprisonment in the Síyáh-Chál that he had several mystical experiences, and received a vision of a maiden from God, through whom he received his mission as a messenger of God and as the one whose coming the Báb had prophesied."
Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia

Funny even for 1850s, and you believe it.

Thanks. I liked that post. Seriously. Also, I don’t think I’ve seen you maligning Baha’is much. I’m not even really sure that you’ve approved other people doing it. What bothers me with you is only what looks to me like bragging and thought policing, and even that doesn’t feel malicious to me.

 

[Marcion]

That looks to me like drawing lines around what Hindus can think, which looks to me like contradicting yourself. Anyway, however much you disapprove of it, I’m not willing to confine my views of what Hindu scriptures say, to what you think Hindus can think.

I’m thinking that if there is any possibility of understanding between us, for now the best thing for me to do is to just say honestly what I think about what your forum character says and does.

Certain hindus are developing a type of religious fundamentalism of their own, perhaps in response to the fundamentalism of real so-called religions like Christianity and Islam.

 

[LuisDantas]

Since I included you in my rant, and I’m trying to put all my cards on the table, I’ll tell you how this, and other things you say about Islam and the Baha’i Faith and their followers, look to me. They look to me like foolish, clownish, stubborn, willful ignorance; blatant and shameless bigotry; and glaring hypocrisy; defaming the name of Buddhism; and camouflaging all that with a way of saying things that creates an illusion of being educated and informed.

If you say so.

In all honesty, you have had plenty of opportunity to justify your claim, and I don't think you have made any attempt.

Which means that you are defaming me willingly.

That would be a problem, if I cared.

But you clearly can't be bothered to care for the meaning and justification of your accusations, and I fail to see why I should not follow your example on that particular matter.

Have a good life, Jim. And be aware that your unfair judgements do you no favor.

 

[Jim]

@Vinayaka I knew that like on Luiis’s post would be yours, before I looked.

 

[atanu]

People might think that I take forum discussions too seriously. I think that I often take what people are saying too seriously, and sometimes I respond to it recklessly and theatrically.

You will be much more peaceful, if you ignore certain members. You will lose nothing , I can assure you.

Best.

 

[Jim]

In all honesty, you have had plenty of opportunity to justify your claim, and I don't think you have made any attempt.

I’m not claiming anything. I’m telling you what the behavior of your character in the forums looks like to me.

Which means that you are defaming me willingly.

I’m not sure how you mean that. I’m not trying to damage your reputation or your relationships with anyone, if that’s what you mean.

But you clearly can't be bothered to care for the meaning and justification of your accusations ...

I didn’t think that any of that would interest you. Would you like me to try to explain what I mean by all that, and give you some examples? I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else that any of that is true. I’m just telling you how it looks to me. I retract “clownish,” because I’m not sure that’s the right word for what I meant by it.

.,, and I fail to see why I should not follow your example on that particular matter.

You mean, you intend to do what you’re accusing me of doing? Defame me wiilingly? Make accusations against me without caring for their meaning and justification? Okay, thanks for the heads up.

Have a good life, Jim. And be aware that your unfair judgements do you no favor.

Thanks for responding. I didn’t have much hope that you would. In spite of what I said about your way of saying things, I actually like it. I think it helps a lot to keep things friendly.

 

[Muffled]

That's because you're not a Vaishnava Hindu. To the overwhelming majority of Vaishnava Hindus, Krishna is not an avatar of God either, he is God. To the overwhelming majority of Hindus, Jesus is neither.

I believe Krishna made the claim but his beliefs reveal that he is not.

 

[Muffled]

True, because everything is God. sarvaṃ khalvidaṃ brahma सर्वं खल्विदं ब्रह्म (Chāndogyopaniṣad 3.14.1): "all this [what we see and experience] is Brahman". You must divorce yourself from the Abrahamic duality to truly understand Hinduism.

I don't believe in divorcing myself from the truth. Since nothing is God breathed in Hinduism then it is mostly the imagination of man.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe Krishna made the claim but his beliefs reveal that he is not.

What are his beliefs, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Muffled]

If there is a God and it somewhat resembles the Abrahamic expectation of same, pretty much everything that is valid, constructive and inspired - in short, anything that is sacred - would by definition have "something that God breathed".

Knowledge of God, of course, is and has always been entirely optional and a matter of personal inclinations.

I believe it is not a matter of what man expects but rather what God says.

I believe whatever God says is valid but not necessarily constructive. Inspiration does not guarantee validity.

I believe what man considers sacred and what God considers sacred are sometimes not the same.