My commentary on Torah - Tanakh - Gospels - Quran.

[dybmh]

The story of Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph, seems to be telling, to me, it's not all of the offspring of Abraham or Isaac that are chosen, but it particularly refers to the fact, chosen ones like Joseph who is superior to his brothers and way higher then them, that which the covenant pertains to. Going back to the twelve princes and talk of making Abraham and his chosen offspring King, it seems, that Ishmael was a means of how God hears the prayer of Abraham as well, and responds to it, and his name means "God hears". Of course, to make it about twelve sons doesn't make sense to me, especially with how his authority (Abraham) was emphasized in that talk.

The banishment story also doesn't make sense to me, as I don't believe in slavery was ever allowed let alone that God would condone the cruel behavior towards Hajar, so to me, it's obvious it's part of how the Torah was distorted to make it not about God's chosen Kings and Messengers only, but more about Jewish people as an being chosen.

The envy towards God's chosen includes even brothers of Joseph towards Joseph. And so this also a way to prepare people for the concept of chosen offspring in Aaron which I will discuss, why I believe, it prepared people for the covenant and then went 180 degrees against that covenant.

For what it's worth, almost every Jew I know ( including myself ) despises the label "chosen" and we will go to extreme lengths to avoid reinforcing the stereotype.

That said, I appreciate reading your take on this, Link.

 

[Link]

a. Allowed? Allowed by whom? This is before the giving of the Torah.

By God and by human moral nature. Neither would condone it and so the likes of Abraham would never condone it.

b. This is different than the Quran making Muslims chosen, how?

Muslims aren't chosen in Quran, they can go astray, they were entrusted like many people were with revelations and holy chosen families, but they can go astray, as they did end up going like many nations did before them.​

 

[Link]

For what it's worth, almost every Jew I know ( including myself ) despises the label "chosen" and we will go to extreme lengths to avoid reinforcing the stereotype.

That said, I appreciate reading your take on this, Link.

The thing is if you read the Torah, you might get that impression, that Jewish people are an authority pertaining to God's teachings by that theme and that they will represent God. Of course, there is as much verses to give the opposite impression as well. And you get the impression God chooses representatives like Abraham, but at the same time, it's get confusing when representatives of God chosen by him are unchosen by him like Aaron's family and Saul. The Quran on the other hand says no people can represent God but that who he chooses nor a group of people including any clergy class (Rabbis or Priests) can be given this purity status of being seen as righteous enough to represent God's teachings except who God himself attributes purity to. This would mean God himself manifests them as pure like he did with Moses and Aaron and like he did with Abraham and the chosen from his blood line (Isaac, Jacob). And ultimately, who God declares pure and righteous and uses for his religion, he does so out of knowledge.

And Muslims include Shiites are astray, because, they don't understand this. They replaces God's Authority with that of fallible humans, as a result, they go astray. And they think clinging to titles like we follow Ahlulbayt (Shiite) will make them guided.

Things are more simple then that but at the same time a lot more complex.

 

[Harel13]

Muslims aren't chosen in Quran, they can go astray, they were entrusted like many people were with revelations and holy chosen families, but they can go astray, as they did end up going like many nations did before them.

I'm not quite sure how this answers the question. And Jews can't go astray?

 

[Link]

I'm not quite sure how this answers the question. And Jews can't go astray?

I don't even call myself Muslim anymore because it's a useless title that causes more confusion to who I am and misrepresents me. Jews believe they represent God's teachings as do Muslims believe they do. Both of them don't look towards the last of God's chosen ones nor reflect over his revelations properly especially his last one, to be guided.

They rely on some of them to think for others, and with a chaotic way, approach his revelation, not trying hard enough to only attribute God truth. Quran is revealed to Jewish people as much as it revealed to Muslims. Neither are guided by it unfortunately, due to sectarian mentality.

That said, the horrible translations of Quran have made this extremely complicated. But God is our Lord and your Lord, and I can read any holy book, I don't need to confirm anyone including Muslims to believe in Quran was revealed by God.

This trick that if you believe in the Quran, you must acknowledge Islam, is a trick that Iblis keeps people away. See the Quran for what it is, beyond the mistranslations, and beyond what Muslims think it says.

 

[Link]

I'm not quite sure how this answers the question. And Jews can't go astray?

No nation of people are ever entrusted in a way they cannot be replaced. Muslims in Quran are threatened to be replaced. In fact, there is many dark scenarios and dark prophecies in Quran, including the possibility 99.999999% of the world perishes when the Mahdi comes and very few survive the punishments and destructions of what the likes of Noah's people faced, and what Sodom and Gomorah faced. I pray all the time, that scenario doesn't happen.

I don't think Muslims will return to Ahlulbayt, but I will try to make them do so, or try my hardest to help save them.

Humanity is threatened - and we are still approaching this "Muslims vs Jews vs Christians" when certainty tells us Abraham was none of them, and Noah was none of them, they submitted to God but didn't make this action into a sectarian title to split from other humans and divide and judge other humans with no knowledge.

 

[Harel13]

No nation of people are ever entrusted in a way they cannot be replaced.

Does the average Muslim agree with this view?

 

[Link]

Does the average Muslim agree with this view?

No. They've become chosen central herd mentality like every lost nation who relies on arrogant people to think for them, and every nation that ever went astray, prideful of what they been given in their sect and discredit all other sects and what other humans have to offer, save a few among them....

And they approach the Quran heedlessly and playfully, ignoring it's repeated themes and it's repeated warnings.

 

[Harel13]

No. They've become chosen central herd mentality like every lost nation who relies on arrogant people to think for them, and every nation that ever went astray, prideful of what they been given in their sect and discredit all other sects and what other humans have to offer, save a few among them....

Does any Muslim agree with you on this?

 

[Link]

Does any Muslim agree with you on this?

I have not met any but I have proofs for it in both Quran and hadiths, and these insights are insights reason and heart can testify to as well.

 

[Harel13]

I have met any but I have proofs for it in both Quran and hadiths.

Would you argue that your position is the only correct view out there?

 

[Link]

Would you argue that your position is the only correct view out there?

Position on this or position over all? Position on this, I am definitely right. On all things, I am certain I am wrong about plenty of things, I just don't know what. But as far this issue is concerned, I'm not wrong.

 

[Harel13]

Position on this

Position on this, I am definitely right.

But as far this issue is concerned, I'm not wrong.

Thanks, that's what I was wondering about.

 

[Harel13]

For what it's worth, almost every Jew I know ( including myself ) despises the label "chosen" and we will go to extreme lengths to avoid reinforcing the stereotype

I know some who don't flinch in the face of the term, rather, quite the opposite. With that said, we're in agreement that the meaning of "chosen" in Judaism is vastly different than how other religions and/or cultures view the term.

 

[Link]

I know some who don't flinch in the face of the term, rather, quite the opposite. With that said, we're in agreement that the meaning of "chosen" in Judaism is vastly different than how other religions and/or cultures view the term.

This maybe true, but Judaism evolves over time, You guys even lost Hebrew and it's a revived language. There was a time when no one spoke Hebrew and knew how, till two people working together revived it. Then it became widespread among Jews after.

I don't know too much of how you currently understand it, and that maybe be different to how Jews understood themselves in the time of the Prophet (s) in that location.

 

[Link]

The way I understand it though is Sunnis and Shiites in general, have this symptom now of believing they are chosen and special, even though God accounts them and punishes them for evil deeds too like all humans, and they don't have a monopoly on truth nor represent the truth nor the guidance but they think they do with no proofs.

This is why they won't even budge on things they know are wrong like killing apostates. They are not willing to be corrected because it means their forefathers and their scholars were wrong on key issues.

And they believe that titles like "Muslim" "Shiite" etc and Mohammad (s) being true Messenger, will save them from the falsehoods they attribute God and not acting to the Quran and Sunnah, but all this is false.

When the Mahdi (a) comes, they may try to refute him by their understanding of Quran, and he may invite them to Mubahila (death curse), and they may too be afraid of it and not call upon death if they are evil and wrong for rejecting the Mahdi (a) if they do reject him.

We'll see what happens, but this umma is ignorant, and very dark natured in their approach to Quran and Sunnah. They are a cursed people but think they are blessed and chosen.

 

[Harel13]

Took some time to remember what a two year old thread was about...

You guys even lost Hebrew and it's a revived language

Stop the presses! We lost Hebrew?! When did that happen?! This is the story of the century!

Oh, wait, no. It didn't happen. Okay, it's the fictional story of the century.

There was a time when no one spoke Hebrew and knew how, till two people working together revived it. Then it became widespread among Jews after.

There was no such time. There were times in which certain communities used it much less, but never a time when no one knew how to speak it. You may now attempt to prove me wrong. Good luck.

I don't know too much of how you currently understand it, and that maybe be different to how Jews understood themselves in the time of the Prophet (s) in that location

I suppose that as long as we don't have time machines we'll never know for sure, but I think there are enough phrases in Tanach that show that the way we currently understand it is well-rooted in Tanach.

Happy birthday, by the way.

 

[Link]

T

I suppose that as long as we don't have time machines we'll never know for sure, but I think there are enough phrases in Tanach that show that the way we currently understand it is well-rooted in Tanach.

People misunderstand and twist context of words all the time, Muslims don't see Ali (a) in Quran, so it would not surprise me if it get's twisted and people make a false concept of it though there is no justification in the Tanakh for that.

And for Hebrew being a revived language and that no one spoke it for centuries, I will email the linguistic professors in my university who stated that for proof and will get back to you.

 

[Link]

T

Happy birthday, by the way.

Thanks.

 

[Harel13]

People misunderstand and twist context of words all the time, Muslims don't see Ali (a) in Quran, so it would not surprise me if it get's twisted and people make a false concept of it though there is no justification in the Tanakh for that.

I suppose that's true.

And for Hebrew being a revived language and that no one spoke it for centuries, I will email the linguistic professors in my university who stated that for proof and will get back to you

Good luck!