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Muslims who don't trust Scholars

Discussion in 'Islam DIR' started by safdar.dushantappeh, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    What I hear is that a Muslim either must trust scholars or become one. I believe in the God, in the judgement day, in Quran, but I refuse to base my faith based on trusting scholars. Do you consider me your Muslim brother?

    Is this the case that to be considered as your Muslim brother I should also trust some scholars that you or your branch authorizes? I am sure at the very beginning of Islam there were no scholars so it should not be so weird if a Muslim does not put them in his belief system.

    Is there any command in Quran that instructs (or at least hints that suggests) creating a space for scholars in our religion? I read Quran and quite contrary I found hints that discourages trusting the religious authorities? Here is the results of my research:
    Simple Islam - Trust-EN

    Is there anything that I missed? Perhaps my conclusion comes from a misinterpretation of some verses and you can help me identify them.
     
  2. Bismillah

    Bismillah Submit

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    Salaam alaikum,

    How is your Arabic?
     
  3. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    Salaam, My Arabic is good.
     
  4. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Of course you are still a muslim. Trusting the scholars are not part of the faith.
    But what is part of the faith to be well guided, is to follow the model of the prophet Muhammad (saw).
    And in that case, the scholars achieved a great work.
     
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  5. Union

    Union Well-Known Member
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  6. Iti oj

    Iti oj Global warming is real and we need to act
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    RF cult leader & taosit black magician
    Be a quranist only?
     
  7. Union

    Union Well-Known Member
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    Lucky question.;)
     
  8. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    In shia Islam, you must not base your beliefs on Taqleed (following others)...
    Rather, you must base it on reason...

    You must have your proofs, for the existence and oneness of God, the necessity of sending prophets, and Imams who could ensure the continuity of the religion without distortion...etc.

    As of issuing Fatwas, it's a very complicated process that needs tens of years of study...You need to fully understand the Quran, the Hadith, the logical, linguistic and the other rules necessary to reach the correct Islamic laws...

    That is why, when it comes to the laws, the majority of Muslims need to follow (Taqleed) a scholar who meets the required conditions...
     
  9. Bismillah

    Bismillah Submit

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    Salaam alaikum,
    But what about how each shi'ite has his own marja'? My friend even told me it can be called marja taqlidi
    But this is what Sunnis also believe?
     
  10. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    Thanks a lot for that. In my area if one does not follow the local scholars people consider him worse that Kafir.

    To be honest, I found myself disagreed with the definition of "well-guided" that scholars offer but I guess since I am not scholar I am at no position to question it. The religious package the scholars of my area offered me was full of details of how to live in a way that pleases the God. This package includes details such as how to clean myself after doing toilet. I do not think Islam is about such details. I did follow the package for over 20 years but deep in my heart I do not think this is what Islam is about and I do not think this is the implementation of putting the prophet as a model.
     
  11. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    If this is the only evidence from Quran that justifies the existence of scholars in Islamic practice, I choose to reject the usually offered interpretation for it. The context is obviously about the past messengers and the fact that they were ordinary people:

    And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know. (43)

    How in god's name one can extend the application of this verse to a religious package full of such details I do not know.
     
  12. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    I personally did not believe in the God and the judgement day based on any proofs. I just chose to believe in them. For Quran, I read it and I found it miraculous, I do not believe it is written by human and I chose to believe it is a message of the God. The rest of religious package however requires trusting scholars, the thing I am not willing to do.

    I agree with you that complexity was the main reason justifying the existence of scholars. But I am not sure I agree with you that this complexity comes from Islam. I rather think that comes from past Mulsims (not Islam). At some point in time past Muslims decided to associate some details to Islam, which their complexity did not allow an ordinary Muslim to comprehend the (now much more complicated) Islam. When I read Quran I did not come to conclusion that Islam is about such details.

    I have a theory (which could be wrong) that why the attached details did not disappear after a while. My theory is that perhaps the details justified the existence of scholars. And scholar became the unique source to see what Islam means. And they were inclined to offer an interpretation of Islam that justifies their existence. For example no car manufacturing company says that cars are useless, otherwise nobody would pay them for their cars. Or no cigarette company would discourage people from smoking cigar since their very existence depends on people keep smoking. As I said it is just a theory and I have no proofs for it.
     
  13. Union

    Union Well-Known Member
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    The 'Question & Answer' part of the verse is in present form , hence applicable for today and for future .

    The verse simply says whoever it is , whether is s/he is mulla or ordinary man , s/he should give fatwa from the Qur'an .
     
  14. Union

    Union Well-Known Member
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    Okay , for everybody's perusal :

    'Ask ''Ahl-alDhikr'' if you do not know.' [16:43,21:07]​


     
  15. Union

    Union Well-Known Member
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    Another noble verse from the Qur'an may add weight in this regard that scholars should answer peoples' inquiries from the Qur'an :

    [005:101] O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.
     
  16. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    I am not sure what is the origin of this rule and I would love to see what are the supporting arguments for that. But the rule seems to ignore the common sense guideline of not separating a phrase from its context.
     
  17. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    Very well said. I cannot agree more.
     
  18. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    in simple answser yes you are my brother because you are muslim :)

    it's your choice to trust or untrust the scholars , they are not God .

    but it's required to get the commun "credibale" explanation of Quran and Hadith .
     
  19. safdar.dushantappeh

    safdar.dushantappeh simpleislam.weebly.com

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    That good Godobeyer, that is very reassuring. But there seems to be a contradiction here: If mastering the repository of the Hadiths is the "required" part for being a Muslim, then how can I reach that without trusting scholars. Reading Quran and checking out the different interpretations was affordable for me, but I certainly do not have the time to master such a huge repository of Hadiths myself.

    So it seems that including "Hadith" as a requirement is equivalent to including "trusting scholars" as a requirement for recognizing a person as Muslim. So, now do you still consider me a Muslim? Or perhaps you consider Hadith as "recommended" part for Muslims rather than the "required" part.
     
  20. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    sorry my english is thrid language :)

    there is no condition in Islam, to trust ALL the scholars to be a Muslim :)

    our different understanding ,in some parts of Quran or Hadith , should take as diversity understanding, NOT contradiction .

    I am considerate you a Muslim not because you trust (follow ) , or not trust scholars , I considerate you as a Muslim because YOU believe in God and his Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ..etc .
     
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