[Muslims Only] Transsexual in Islam

[Taylor Seraphim]

Ah, yes I know about this since I'm from Balkans but the way you wrote it I thought there was a group called Balkans.

My mistake about my wording then.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I saw a show last year about this. The girl took hormones to be a guy and she wanted to make an operation to be fully a man.
I remember that he wanted to make the operation in Egypt because there was a famous doctor there -they brought him in the show- but i think the imam said it shouldn't be done or under some conditions.
I don't remember quite well, i don't have have time to re-watch it right now to confirm if in sunism it's forbidden or not.
Maybe if @Godobeyer has some time ... not sure that @Smart_Guy or others arabophones understand this dialect.

Ah saw a promo about an other episode don't know if it's about homosexuality or transgenders, i'll tell you that if i watch it.

Hmm... I personally believe in an Islamic rule that says necessities allows the forbidden الضرورات تبيح المحظورات to an extent of my own. If someone is born with a problem in sexuality, it can be fixed if they wanted to, I believe. But Islam is a serious religion, so such problems will require thorough investigations, in this case scientific and psychological, and confirmation of the case before attempting to fix it. In other words, one has to work hard on it, not just "think" it's a problem and attempt to fix it.

The above is a personal understanding, not a religious commendation or fatwa.

 

[Gharib]

The Prophet, salallahu alayhi wa salam, has cursed feminine men and masculine women. I think this hadith on it's own clears this matter quite a bit.

As for people who are born with both male and female features, they are given the gender that they mostly behave as and have the other part removed through surgery.

A man may undergo as much operations as he want's to, but he will never have the ability to give birth. And a woman can undergo as many operations as she may want to but she will never be able to father a child. [***staff edit***] Islam doesn't teach that it's fine to do something so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, that is a very ignorant view point.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

The Prophet, salallahu alayhi wa salam, has cursed feminine men and masculine women. I think this hadith on it's own clears this matter quite a bit.

As for people who are born with both male and female features, they are given the gender that they mostly behave as and have the other part removed through surgery.

A man may undergo as much operations as he want's to, but he will never have the ability to give birth. And a woman can undergo as many operations as she may want to but she will never be able to father a child. [***staff edit***] Islam doesn't teach that it's fine to do something so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, that is a very ignorant view point.

Question: Where do I belong?!?

 

[Gharib]

Question: Where do I belong?!?

Well first if you are not a Muslim your belonging in the Islamic DIR is only by way of respectful questions.

Secondly, am I supposed to know something about you which at the moment I do not?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Well first if you are not a Muslim your belonging in the Islamic DIR is only by way of respectful questions.

Secondly, am I supposed to know something about you which at the moment I do not?

Okay, according to Islam where does an intersexual who is both physically and mentally equal parts male and female and finds both males, females, and other intersex to be attractive belong?

 

[Gharib]

Okay, according to Islam where does an intersexual who is both physically and mentally equal parts male and female and finds both males, females, and other intersex to be attractive belong?

First of all Islam teaches that we must control our carnal desires. I too have a desire that all women belong to me and I do as I please with them, but Islam prohibits that even if all the women in the world consent to it.

Instead what do I do? I follow the teachings of Islam, which are, first and foremost lower your gaze (do not look at those who you are attracted to in a lustful way). Then if your desires are too strong get married. Then, segregation of men and women which goes back to point one, lower your gaze.

This is the reason why Islam permits marriage as soon as one reaches puberty, it is not an obligation to get married so young, but it is a way of purity for anyone who is young yet has strong desire for the opposite sex. So rather than have them commit fornication which would lead to a decay in morality and unchaste youth in society they are permitted to find a partner and get married.

Now getting back to your question, if you are a man and have desires for women, men and whatever else there may be, then get married to a woman and problem solved. Marriage isn't just about making children, it is about fulfilling a physical desire as much as it may be about anything else. And once your cup is full and have constant access to water, you won't need to go looking for another tap.

But I must point out that my post may just as well be a waste because I am a Muslim and you are not. As a Muslim, marriage between two people of the same sex is not permitted and unlawful. That is not to say that such people must be forced to marry someone of the opposite sex, it's just that they must refrain from succumbing to their desires to be with someone of the same sex. Just like I and all Muslim men must not sleep with all the women out there.

 

[LuisDantas]

What would be a proper attitude or behavior for someone who is told that his or her specific situation in the LGBTQI spectrum is forbidden in Islam, if he or she lives in an Islamic community and for some reason does not have convenient means to leave that community?

 

[Gharib]

What would be a proper attitude or behavior for someone who is told that his or her specific situation in the LGBTQI spectrum is forbidden in Islam, if he or she lives in an Islamic community and for some reason does not have convenient means to leave that community?

There is nothing wrong with being an LGBTQI in an Islamic community just as there isn't for being straight. The problem is when an illegal act is performed regardless of being straight or not.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is nothing wrong with being an LGBTQI in an Islamic community just as there isn't for being straight. The problem is when an illegal act is performed regardless of being straight or not.

How can a transexual or Intersexual not "act" on being what he or she is?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

There is nothing wrong with being an LGBTQI in an Islamic community just as there isn't for being straight. The problem is when an illegal act is performed regardless of being straight or not.

Why do you believe that god gives heterosexuals an urge and let them fulfill it and then gives homosexuals an urge but not allow them to fulfill it?

 

[Gharib]

You said sexual attraction to the same sex is wrong in Islam, but that is not what I asked.

Do you even know what intersexual means?

From your initial question I focused mainly on the part 'attracted to males, females and other intersexuals'. Where exactly did I go wrong?

Does being an intersexual mean having both features of males and females? Is that what you wanted me to answer?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

From your initial question I focused mainly on the part 'attracted to males, females and other intersexuals'. Where exactly did I go wrong?

Does being an intersexual mean having both features of males and females? Is that what you wanted me to answer?

So who do you think I should be allowed to have sex with?

An intersexual has both male and female traits yes.

But in Islam males and females have specific rules they are supposed to follow.

Which rules is an intersexual in-between them supposed to act on?

 

[Gharib]

How can a transexual or Intersexual not "act" on being what he or she is?

A non-Muslim cannot but act because they do not believe the teachings of Islam. Just as straight men commit adultery and fornication because they do not ascribe to a belief system or a way of life that renders it illegal. And you can never understand why it may be wrong or illegal if you aren't a Muslim. I have said many times now, I'd love to have all the women in the world, but because I know that this is wrong I do not act on such a desire.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why do you believe that god gives heterosexuals an urge and let them fulfill it and then gives homosexuals an urge but not allow them to fulfill it?

On a related note: what are the honorable choices that a homosexual has ahead of him or her if she happens to be born in a Muslim culture?

As I understand it right now, it should be possible to leave that community for a non-Muslim one.

Or else live in secrecy and/or denial of one's natural sexuality. since established Islamic understanding is that homosexuals can't act on their sexuality.

Hoping to eventually change the established understanding might be a theorical possibility, but I am not sure. Such understandings do sound very traditional and unlikely to change at all often, or even at all.

May you please help me in correcting or improving my understanding of what what would be proper for a Muslim to do in such a situation?

 

[LuisDantas]

A non-Muslim cannot but act because they do not believe the teachings of Islam. Just as straight men commit adultery and fornication because they do not ascribe to a belief system or a way of life that renders it illegal. And you can never understand why it may be wrong or illegal if you aren't a Muslim. I have said many times now, I'd love to have all the women in the world, but because I know that this is wrong I do not act on such a desire.

Are you implying that intersexuals and Muslims are mutually exclusive groups?

What do you think of the theological implications of such a statement, if you think that such is the case?

 

[Gharib]

So who do you think I should be allowed to have sex with?

An intersexual has both male and female traits yes.

But in Islam males and females have specific rules they are supposed to follow.

Which rules is an intersexual in-between them supposed to act on?

I think I answered this question even before you asked it. My first post in this thread.

I said that our scholars say if a person has both features, then they are allowed to grow up and once they have a stronger orientation towards one gender the features of the other sex are removed through operation and are helped to develop further in the sex that they have chosen through medication, further surgery etc.

I hope this clarifies things a bit better.

 

[LuisDantas]

A non-Muslim cannot but act because they do not believe the teachings of Islam. Just as straight men commit adultery and fornication because they do not ascribe to a belief system or a way of life that renders it illegal. And you can never understand why it may be wrong or illegal if you aren't a Muslim. I have said many times now, I'd love to have all the women in the world, but because I know that this is wrong I do not act on such a desire.

On another note: a lheterosexual that is naturally inclined to desire many women can learn to reflect on the consequences of acting on his or her impulses and, hopefully, be at peace with the practical need to nurture a faithful, dedicated relatioship. I understand that this is what you mean to say here.

Do you think some sort of parallel can be made with homosexuality? If so, is it by complete avoidance of homosexual sex, or is there another way?

And what about intersexuality? Is a Muslim intersex expected to act and behave as if he were a cisgendered (non-intersex) person, or am I missing something here?

 

[Pastek]

Salam

The transsexual is forbiden in Quran , I understand from Imam there is cases which required the doctors decision just to fix .not to transform.

Thanks. To fix what exactly ? What the Imam said and what the egyptian doctor said ? I do remember he accepted do to something like an operation, no ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Thanks. To fix what exactly ? What the Imam said and what the egyptian doctor said ? I do remember he accepted do to something like an operation, no ?

fix body , the sexual organs. (not mental).

-Imam said it's forbiden to transform man to woman or opposite,but if it's about fix organs that ok, so he let it to doctor.

-Doctor said he could make the operation, but and after try to fix the hormons and psychologic treatement for 2 years ,then take the permission of console of Egyptian doctors and Al-Azhar Imam to make the operation to him.