Muslims and Mormons

[idea]

I did not want to de-rail another thread:

What are the parallel claims?

The short list:
Both faiths use scriptures miraculously revealed to a "prophet", scribes wrote down dictation. Books of scripture both considered miraculous as both Muhammed and Joseph Smith were not really educated.

• Quran: Revealed from Allah to Muhammed after Muhammed's "First revelation".
• Book of Mormon: Revealed from God to Joseph Smith after Joseph's "first vision"

Similar dietary laws - no alcohol
Similar beliefs about women in the afterlife, men given many wives

Restoration, First revelation / First vision:
Both faiths believe original truth had been lost, and needed to be "restored".
Mahdi instead of Jesus, and Allaah instead of God,

Both faiths guided by Jibreel aka the Holy Spirit
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

3 Nephi 28:11
And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men,

Questions:
If you are a Muslim, why did you choose to follow Muhammed / Quran rather than follow Joseph Smith / Book of Mormon? Do you feel you have had spiritual experiences which have caused you to choose your faith over others? What do you think of Mormons and their prophet?

If you are a Mormon - same question switched around.

 

[Link]

(1) Quran iterates itself in an infinite loop while I haven't witnessed such guidance from outside of Islam. To say this, while, normal books will be understood more in time, the more you read them. The Quran is like that true, but it get's augmented the more you understand and opens doors to doors, and you feel overwhelmed by it and know by it you are just scratching at it's depth and that it can keep going. You can witness yourself from reciting it over and over again, how augmented it get's, and how different doors open to other doors. And the more treasure keys you unlock, the more beautiful and majestic Quran becomes, but it's amazements never end, and you see bigger signs the more you know of it.

(2) I've witnessed a dark sorcery upon Quran and even a lot of the Sunnah, and this is abnormal and nothing natural can explain it. I've concluded that there is a dark force that for example does not want to see the truth of the successors and family of Mohammad (s) in Quran and they have overwhelmed humanity with sorcery and made them blind to most of it. I've argued why before in other threads that I believe this is best explained by Quran being truth and the ones casting spells and locks upon it, are evil and dark natured.

(3)I've witnessed eloquence in Quran that to is beyond human capability, it's too subtle for normal humans to think of and come up with.

(4)I witness in my heart and mind who each sequence of mystic letters refers to. I've made some threads on this but yet have not fully explained the detail and miracles of this. Made a poem but that's just scratching the surface of those reasons and there is more miracles with respect to this. I see how Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) go together to the extent I see which member of Ahlulbayt (a) is aliased by which mystic letter sequence.

(5)Mohammad (s) and his family (a) have telepathically guided me and helped me and their lights and ways of connecting are majestic proofs of God and they are the highest signs spiritually to witness. I can't ask for more certainty then that.

(6)Reasoning of Archetype religion proves the proper religion (instance of it), I've made a thread about that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I did not want to de-rail another thread:


The short list:
Both faiths use scriptures miraculously revealed to a "prophet", scribes wrote down dictation. Books of scripture both considered miraculous as both Muhammed and Joseph Smith were not really educated.

• Quran: Revealed from Allah to Muhammed after Muhammed's "First revelation".
• Book of Mormon: Revealed from God to Joseph Smith after Joseph's "first vision"

Similar dietary laws - no alcohol
Similar beliefs about women in the afterlife, men given many wives

Restoration, First revelation / First vision:
Both faiths believe original truth had been lost, and needed to be "restored".
Mahdi instead of Jesus, and Allaah instead of God,

Both faiths guided by Jibreel aka the Holy Spirit
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

3 Nephi 28:11
And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men,

Questions:
If you are a Muslim, why did you choose to follow Muhammed / Quran rather than follow Joseph Smith / Book of Mormon? Do you feel you have had spiritual experiences which have caused you to choose your faith over others? What do you think of Mormons and their prophet?

If you are a Mormon - same question switched around.

The book of Mormons is not a part of the sufi teaching, so it is a reason why as a sufi one do not follow the teaching of Joseph Smith
To be honest I have very little knowledge about the teaching in Mormon faith, but if it is a faith and teaching that is good for those who practices it, that is good.
I do not call other belief/religions fake or false just because it is not what I am practicing my self

 

[firedragon]

• Quran: Revealed from Allah to Muhammed after Muhammed's "First revelation".

• Book of Mormon: Revealed from God to Joseph Smith after Joseph's "first vision"

Quran was a new revelation. Smith apparently translated an old manuscript.
Quran teaches monotheism. One God, who bears no children, not a child, necessary being, One.

Pretty different.

I think you need to learn about the theology a little.

 

[firedragon]

Questions:
If you are a Muslim, why did you choose to follow Muhammed / Quran rather than follow Joseph Smith / Book of Mormon? Do you feel you have had spiritual experiences which have caused you to choose your faith over others? What do you think of Mormons and their prophet?

Because I studied the Quran. Not just read about it somewhere.

 

[MyM]

I did not want to de-rail another thread:


The short list:
Both faiths use scriptures miraculously revealed to a "prophet", scribes wrote down dictation. Books of scripture both considered miraculous as both Muhammed and Joseph Smith were not really educated.

• Quran: Revealed from Allah to Muhammed after Muhammed's "First revelation".
• Book of Mormon: Revealed from God to Joseph Smith after Joseph's "first vision"

Similar dietary laws - no alcohol
Similar beliefs about women in the afterlife, men given many wives

Restoration, First revelation / First vision:
Both faiths believe original truth had been lost, and needed to be "restored".
Mahdi instead of Jesus, and Allaah instead of God,

Both faiths guided by Jibreel aka the Holy Spirit
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

3 Nephi 28:11
And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men,

Questions:
If you are a Muslim, why did you choose to follow Muhammed / Quran rather than follow Joseph Smith / Book of Mormon? Do you feel you have had spiritual experiences which have caused you to choose your faith over others? What do you think of Mormons and their prophet?

If you are a Mormon - same question switched around.

• Ok, first of all, In Islam, it is God who is the author of the Quran and only he can guide us to the straight path-His.
• Secondly, Joseph Smith is not considered a prophet of God, nor was he taught by God, nor was he endorsed by God and even n the Bible was not mentioned by God.-also to help with it as well in the Bible it also says, “many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many” (Matt. 24:11). (using the source from its own)
• Thirdly, Angel Jibreel is the one that comes down with the revelations and gives it to messengers from God not to just anyone who makes this claim. There is no substantiated proof to Joseph Smith and he came about when? late 1800's?
• Fourthly, In Islam, we don't believe that the "Holy Spirit" overtakes us and then by that cannot be held accountable for our sins like many many many Christians believe that they are saved by Grace of Jesus' death.
• Fifthly, In Islam, we do not believe Jesus died nor that God died or dies.
• Sixthly, according to me and many Christian Scholars, The Bible holds many contradictions to be labeled a book of God.
• Seventh, I became a Muslim because I searched for the truth and I believe I found it.

 

[idea]

Thank you everyone for the replies!

In the absence of anyone from the Mormon Faith replying, I will also post a link to a book on the subject written by Mormons:

Mormons and Muslims | Religious Studies Center

(1) Quran iterates itself in an infinite loop while I haven't witnessed such guidance from outside of Islam. To say this, while, normal books will be understood more in time, the more you read them. The Quran is like that true, but it get's augmented the more you understand and opens doors to doors, and you feel overwhelmed by it and know by it you are just scratching at it's depth and that it can keep going. You can witness yourself from reciting it over and over again, how augmented it get's, and how different doors open to other doors. And the more treasure keys you unlock, the more beautiful and majestic Quran becomes, but it's amazements never end, and you see bigger signs the more you know of it.

(2) I've witnessed a dark sorcery upon Quran and even a lot of the Sunnah, and this is abnormal and nothing natural can explain it. I've concluded that there is a dark force that for example does not want to see the truth of the successors and family of Mohammad (s) in Quran and they have overwhelmed humanity with sorcery and made them blind to most of it. I've argued why before in other threads that I believe this is best explained by Quran being truth and the ones casting spells and locks upon it, are evil and dark natured.

(3)I've witnessed eloquence in Quran that to is beyond human capability, it's too subtle for normal humans to think of and come up with.

(4)I witness in my heart and mind who each sequence of mystic letters refers to. I've made some threads on this but yet have not fully explained the detail and miracles of this. Made a poem but that's just scratching the surface of those reasons and there is more miracles with respect to this. I see how Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) go together to the extent I see which member of Ahlulbayt (a) is aliased by which mystic letter sequence.

(5)Mohammad (s) and his family (a) have telepathically guided me and helped me and their lights and ways of connecting are majestic proofs of God and they are the highest signs spiritually to witness. I can't ask for more certainty then that.

(6)Reasoning of Archetype religion proves the proper religion (instance of it), I've made a thread about that.

(1), (3), (4) Mormons believe similar things about their own scriptures, read the Book of Mormon over and over and over again, (5) teach that you will receive a spiritual witness that it is true if you study it correctly etc.

"the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth," - link

(2) What is Muslim test to determine a false prophet from a real one?

The book of Mormons is not a part of the sufi teaching, so it is a reason why as a sufi one do not follow the teaching of Joseph Smith
To be honest I have very little knowledge about the teaching in Mormon faith, but if it is a faith and teaching that is good for those who practices it, that is good.
I do not call other belief/religion fake or false just because it is not what I am practicing my self

Mormonism is good for some (mainly white males), and not so good for others (LGBTQ, women who are not allowed to hold the priesthood, those who are not white - see priesthood bans of the past on those of color, and current ethnic makeup of church leadership).

Yes, there are common elements within all belief systems that are very beautiful, but it seems like there is a reason those who have chosen one belief over others have rejected the beliefs of others?

Quran was a new revelation. Smith apparently translated an old manuscript.
Quran teaches monotheism. One God, who bears no children, not a child, necessary being, One.

Pretty different.

I think you need to learn about the theology a little.

D&C is new revelation, although I think the Quran also looks back to original teachings from time of Adam, and part of the purpose is to restore ancient lost truths.

Because I studied the Quran. Not just read about it somewhere.

This is what many Mormons will say as well - that they joined the Mormon church after study of the Book of Mormon.

Interesting, thank you all again for replies.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thank you everyone for the replies!

In the absence of anyone from the Mormon Faith replying, I will also post a link to a book on the subject written by Mormons:

Mormons and Muslims | Religious Studies Center



(1), (3), (4) Mormons believe similar things about their own scriptures, read the Book of Mormon over and over and over again, (5) teach that you will receive a spiritual witness that it is true if you study it correctly etc.

"the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth," - link

(2) What is Muslim test to determine a false prophet from a real one?




Mormonism is good for some (mainly white males), and not so good for others (LGBTQ, women who are not allowed to hold the priesthood, those who are not white - see priesthood bans of the past on those of color, and current ethnic makeup of church leadership).

Yes, there are common elements within all belief systems that are very beautiful, but it seems like there is a reason those who have chosen one belief over others have rejected the beliefs of others?



D&C is new revelation, although I think the Quran also looks back to original teachings from time of Adam, and part of the purpose is to restore ancient lost truths.



This is what many Mormons will say as well - that they joined the Mormon church after study of the Book of Mormon.

Interesting, thank you all again for replies.

My understanding is to only follow one teaching at any given time. If others wish to follow and believe different than I do, that is no problem to me.

 

[firedragon]

D&C is new revelation, although I think the Quran also looks back to original teachings from time of Adam, and part of the purpose is to restore ancient lost truths.

Please read up on it.

This is what many Mormons will say as well - that they joined the Mormon church after study of the Book of Mormon.

But check the claim up. And study it. At least read up.

Cheers.

 

[Jack11]

I laugh at this in the LDS they don't like being called Mormons anymore there are gods coming out of the yinyang - God the father is a God with his own body (a man) Jesus is a God The holy spirit is a God the devil is a God Jesus mother is an unnamed female God that God the father had a physical relationship with . The LDS teaches that you too can become just like God. So far away from Islam it isn't funny.

The head of the Church is called the prophet and speaks for God
Its convenient to have a prophet as head of the Church you can change the theology as you go in revelation from the prophet

 

[idea]

I laugh at this in the LDS they don't like being called Mormons anymore there are gods coming out of the yinyang - God the father is a God with his own body (a man) Jesus is a God The holy spirit is a God the devil is a God Jesus mother is an unnamed female God that God the father had a physical relationship with . The LDS teaches that you too can become just like God. So far away from Islam it isn't funny.

The head of the Church is called the prophet and speaks for God

So the Pope is a prophet too? I have heard " infallible Vicar of Christ, but had not heard the term "prophet" used before. We all need to get all these different prophets figured out I guess.

Mormons do claim to be monotheistic, do not believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit are Gods - but only help God.

As far as "Heavenly Mother" - women in the Mormon church are ex-communicated for talking about that, so not really. It is a male hierarchy, as most faiths are.

My understanding is to only follow one teaching at any given time. If others wish to follow and believe different than I do, that is no problem to me.

Yes, I agree it is only possible to immerse yourself in one faith at a time, and that is what is needed to really understand it. I find it difficult to become immersed into anything - even though I do recognize the close-knit communities that exist through that which can be quite lovely. I just can't see any one group being any better than any other, or being "The" group.

Seems like a loving God would pull everyone together in one group, and that is just not the case.

Please read up on it.
But check the claim up. And study it. At least read up.
Cheers.

Unfortunately, I did spend ~20 years in the Mormon church. Very embarrassing phase of my life haha. I did read an English version of Quran in a religious studies class, although I know original language, and Muslim teacher would be needed to really understand it. It was very interesting to see the parallels with the old testament.

For those who are not Muslim or Mormon

From a distance, do you see any similarities between the two faiths?

 

[Dogknox20]

I laugh at this in the LDS they don't like being called Mormons anymore there are gods coming out of the yinyang - God the father is a God with his own body (a man) Jesus is a God The holy spirit is a God the devil is a God Jesus mother is an unnamed female God that God the father had a physical relationship with . The LDS teaches that you too can become just like God. So far away from Islam it isn't funny.

The head of the Church is called the prophet and speaks for God

.
I add.... Christians believe in ONE God they the LDS believe in many!

Christians use the Cross as a symbol of Christianity; you see a cross on a church you KNOW it is a Christian church! Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was Jesus dyeing on the Cross that destroyed death and restored Life! Satan would never ever allow a Cross on any of his churches he also would stop his followers from using a cross! Satan is repelled by the cross!
The Anti-Christ is "Anti-Christian!"

 

[InvestigateTruth]

l

.

3 Nephi 28:11
And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men,
.

I don't think this is saying, the Book of Mormons came from God through Holy Ghost. I don't even know what this sentence means.

 

[firedragon]

Unfortunately, I did spend ~20 years in the Mormon church. Very embarrassing phase of my life haha. I did read an English version of Quran in a religious studies class, although I know original language, and Muslim teacher would be needed to really understand it. It was very interesting to see the parallels with the old testament.

Well. Its great you have done your groundwork.

So what are the parallels with the Old Testament? What are the differences? Why?

Can you specifically spell it out? Not just generally like most do. I ask because you have studied the Qur'an, and you said you know the "original language".

Cheers.

 

[Jack11]

I don't think this is saying, the Book of Mormons came from God through Holy Ghost. I don't even know what this sentence means.

The Popes a Prophet - show me where? There are ignorant people who believe every word he speaks is from God its simply not true.

The Pope can speak only on faith and morals but it has happened only once in its history and it was not a prophecy. It was on faith. Its not as you say

 

[MyM]

.
I add.... Christians believe in ONE God they the LDS believe in many!

Christians use the Cross as a symbol of Christianity; you see a cross on a church you KNOW it is a Christian church! Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was Jesus dyeing on the Cross that destroyed death and restored Life! Satan would never ever allow a Cross on any of his churches he also would stop his followers from using a cross! Satan is repelled by the cross!
The Anti-Christ is "Anti-Christian!"

How can God die?

 

[MyM]

.
I add.... Christians believe in ONE God they the LDS believe in many!

Christians use the Cross as a symbol of Christianity; you see a cross on a church you KNOW it is a Christian church! Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was Jesus dyeing on the Cross that destroyed death and restored Life! Satan would never ever allow a Cross on any of his churches he also would stop his followers from using a cross! Satan is repelled by the cross!
The Anti-Christ is "Anti-Christian!"

In Islam, we already know what is going to happen when the anti-christ comes. We know what will happen when Eesa (Jesus) on him peace, when he returns and we know the minor and major signs before the Day of Judgement.

In Islam, we know about the anti-christ and his looks, his actions and what will happen to him. There is no guess work

 

[idea]

I don't think this is saying, the Book of Mormons came from God through Holy Ghost. I don't even know what this sentence means.

Mormons believe their book is "the stick of Joseph" mentioned in Ezekiel 37.

They admonish members to read the Book of Mormon, pray, and receive spiritual witness to verify it's authenticity.

Well. Its great you have done your groundwork.

So what are the parallels with the Old Testament? What are the differences? Why?

Can you specifically spell it out? Not just generally like most do. I ask because you have studied the Qur'an, and you said you know the "original language".

Cheers.

Sorry - I meant to write I do NOT know Arabic so recognize that my reading the Qur'an in English with a .... rather new-ageish professor, was not the best way to go through it. It was a bit confusing, not in any chronological order, it was vague on many places and even names which makes apologetics much easier as it can be interpreted many ways (unlike the Bible OT which has specific places, and you can walk through a timeline of what was supposed to be happening when). It follows the OT monotheistic theme, and mentions quite a few of the same names - like Adam, Noah, Job, Moses etc. The organization is very confusing though.

Do you have tools that map out the original language?
Example, Bible uses Lexicon so those who do not speak Greek or Hebrew can see it: Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

How can God die?

Some people do not believe in the trinity (JW's, Mormons, Bible Students, etc.) in which case Jesus is not God, but the son of God.

 

[MyM]

Sorry - I meant to write I do NOT know Arabic so recognize that my reading the Qur'an in English with a .... rather new-ageish professor, was not the best way to go through it. It was a bit confusing, not in any chronological order, it was vague on many places and even names which makes apologetics much easier as it can be interpreted many ways (unlike the Bible OT which has specific places, and you can walk through a timeline of what was supposed to be happening when). It follows the OT monotheistic theme, and mansions quite a few of the same names - like Adam, Noah, Job, Moses etc. The organization is very confusing though.

Do you have tools that map out the original language?
Example, Bible uses Lexicon so those who do not speak Greek or Hebrew can see it: Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible



Some people do not believe in the trinity (JW's, Mormons, Bible Students, etc.) in which case Jesus is not God, but the son of God.

Yeah, that I do know but majority do. They worship 3 distinctive beings, yet claim as one. To me, this just doesn't make any sense. In Islam, Allah does not have any sons or daughters. He is ONE and the only one worthy of worship.

 

[Dogknox20]

How can God die?

Hello MyM it's good to meet you...
Adam sinned! When God made Adam God made him perfect.. God can not do less then perfect or he would not be God! God made all of creation "Perfect"! The Perfect man "Freely" made a choice to sin! Adam chose sin by disobeying God! NOW...

MyM now God' perfect creation was corrupted.. Sin was introduced to God' perfect creation! All of us.. "You and me" everyone are born corrupted because we are the descendant of Adam the corrupted man! ONLY...

MyM only God is perfect! Man needed a second "Perfect Man" to fix the corruption of the first perfect man Adam! God became part of his own creation! God came to earth to fix what Adam broke!
We needed a second Perfect Man to die! The wages of Sin is death... Adam brought death into creation and Jesus dyeing Sin-LESS rose from the grave, death could not hold Jesus in the grave!

God cannot die as a MAN if first he is not born a man!