Muslim and Western?

[Shia Islam]

A couple of months ago I converted to Islam, but since then I have gone through some trouble with my new faith. Although I still have faith, I find that some times it contradicts with my own Western culture and values.

Things like women's rights, capital punishments for apostates, and other parts of Shariah law go against my beliefs in freedom of religion and expression.

I'm still learning, so if any one could explain these points to me better, I'll be very grateful.

Congratulations that you have been blessed with finding Islam...

If Islam does not contradict the the Non-Islamic Culture, then in that case Islam must be wrong.

When we live under a culture, we become familiar with it...Sometimes we confuse familiarity with being right...

Scholars spend long time to learn Islam...

You will need to study the areas of contradictions, and study them deeply...

You will surly find that Islam brings all the answers.

 

[Caladan]

Despite the fact I personally do not accept Shi'ites under the Islamic fold it is not arguable for Druze. Druze do not even consider themselves under the Islamic umbrella anymore.

Some Druze do some don't.

Do not forget if all of these groups are under the same umbrella then I myself am a Muslim as I abide by quite a bit of Islamic dogma and theology

I did not challenge you actually, I wanted to see what Gharib has to say about it.

 

[Pegg]

Mashallah i am happy you found Islam!


Wow this is a hard one yes the Islamic core teachings do contradict some of the Western value's and aspects of life. I personally wonder if Islam was used as a example in the West to follow would there still be the high criminal rate, women abuses and so forth.

I see Islam as fixing the Western Problems instead of contradicting it but i think it depends on your views.

are you claiming that women in islamic societies experience no abuse?

what exactly would constitute an act of abuse in islamic societies??

 

[darkendless]

Mashallah i am happy you found Islam!


Wow this is a hard one yes the Islamic core teachings do contradict some of the Western value's and aspects of life. I personally wonder if Islam was used as a example in the West to follow would there still be the high criminal rate, women abuses and so forth.

I see Islam as fixing the Western Problems instead of contradicting it but i think it depends on your views.

Surely this is a troll? Islamic majority countries are just as riddled with crime and female abuse.

Aren't Islamic countries still practising female genital mutilation? Aren't womens rights regarding rape heavily in favour of the men doing so in requiring witnesses?

Please tell me you're joking in the above post?

 

[Gharib]

Surely this is a troll? Islamic majority countries are just as riddled with crime and female abuse.

Aren't Islamic countries still practising female genital mutilation? Aren't womens rights regarding rape heavily in favour of the men doing so in requiring witnesses?

Please tell me you're joking in the above post?

Which Islamic country? An Islamic state doesn't allow the abuse of women. I think you need to differentiate between a country that has Muslims and an Islamic state.

If you think Middle Eastern countries are Islamic countries due to Muslims living there, then Australia is no less of an Islamic country since Muslims live there too.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Which Islamic country? An Islamic state doesn't allow the abuse of women. I think you need to differentiate between a country that has Muslims and an Islamic state.

If you think Middle Eastern countries are Islamic countries due to Muslims living there, then Australia is no less of an Islamic country since Muslims live there too.

*cough cough*
Saudi Arabia beheaded roughly 3 females for witchcraft this decade. Along with over 10 Indonesian maids I can think of all for various reasons.
In countries like Afghanistan girls are stopped from going to school and are only attending because of NATO presence.
Women are beaten and soldiers are often encountering such things in the villages.
In Iraq the identical thing happened. And just like all other Islamiyyah countries they went unreported and nothing happened because it was not deemed wrong.
Also do not get me started on Indonesia and Iran. Please don't
I can go on and on about this stuff. Islam is not western and is very anti-western, which I actually like . But it doesn't coincide with Western culture or morals. Westerners love to drink, eat pork, NOT hit their wives (not even lightly).
There is nothing wrong with Islam itself but it is just not created to coincide with American and European civilization. This is why despite Islam's rapid growth during its creation it stopped when it hit European borders. Christianity was mixed and integrated into cultures while Islam was strict and rigid forbidding many things and stopped its own continuity.

 

[Assad91]

In countries like Afghanistan girls are stopped from going to school and are only attending because of NATO presence.

and WHY? Why is it that they are not allowed to go to school?

I can go on and on about this stuff. Islam is not western and is very anti-western

And what about the West are Muslims against?

 

[Sha'irullah]

and WHY? Why is it that they are not allowed to go to school?

Mostly because of Salafi inspired rebels want a more Sharia based government and try attacking girls or finding any indirect way of foreboding this.

And what about the West are Muslims against?

Democracy
Human rights
Civil rights
Freedom of expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom in general
Western entertainment
Western culture
Western politics
Western protection of Israeli freedom
And just the West in general.

Sort of Ironic that I am a born American and joined Islam but I also find it ironic that a Muslim would be born elsewhere and desire to be in North America or Europe.

 

[Sunstone]

Democracy
Human rights
Civil rights
Freedom of expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom in general
Western entertainment
Western culture
Western politics
Western protection of Israeli freedom
And just the West in general.

You don't leave much out.

 

[Aquitaine]

Which Islamic country? An Islamic state doesn't allow the abuse of women. I think you need to differentiate between a country that has Muslims and an Islamic state.

If you think Middle Eastern countries are Islamic countries due to Muslims living there, then Australia is no less of an Islamic country since Muslims live there too.

No True Scotsman fallacy. I tire of hearing people just gloss over all the corruption, abuse and suffering in the ISLAMIC WORLD by saying: "Oh, they're not *real* Muslims".

Kinda like when some people make the stupid argument of how Homosexuality doesn't exist in Islamic countries, because no *real* Muslim would be Homosexual.

 

[Assad91]

Mostly because of Salafi inspired rebels want a more Sharia based government and try attacking girls or finding any indirect way of foreboding this.

Things the Taliban supposedly banned - Everything2.com

And recently it as had more to do with the problem of the war and girl schools being used for bases. And of course, co-eduction.

Democracy
Human rights
Civil rights
Freedom of expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom in general
Western entertainment
Western culture
Western politics
Western protection of Israeli freedom
And just the West in general.

Sort of Ironic that I am a born American and joined Islam but I also find it ironic that a Muslim would be born elsewhere and desire to be in North America or Europe.

You could've summed it up to forceful pushing of foreign values. Why should muslims have to give up Islam and its values?

 

[F0uad]

Surely this is a troll? Islamic majority countries are just as riddled with crime and female abuse.

Aren't Islamic countries still practising female genital mutilation? Aren't womens rights regarding rape heavily in favour of the men doing so in requiring witnesses?

Please tell me you're joking in the above post?

Compare those statics of anything with the West and come to your own conclusion i am pretty sure that the Rape, Injustice and Crime rate in Saudi Arabia are much lower then in France, Spain, Britain or America. I never said that these countries are perfect far from it i don't belief you can have a Secular or Islamic Sharia implemented that can be practiced perfectly because some people are just evil in nature it has nothing to do with the ideology. Now you can keep debating this and call me a troll for believing that Sharia is superior to a Material world view but at the end you will just have to accept my opinion.

 

[F0uad]

Mostly because of Salafi inspired rebels want a more Sharia based government and try attacking girls or finding any indirect way of foreboding this.

Lear the definition of a Salfi please and stop looking everything true Western glasses this is nonsense even among Salafi's woman can go to school. O AND SALAFIS ARE NOT TERRORIST!



As for the Topic, yes there are certain things that do contradict but Muslims have been in the West since the beginning and the other way around. You should off-course integrate in the country learn the language, follow the laws, pay taxes and so forth but i don't see why you cannot be a Muslim and live in the West. Muslims have lived in America from the beginning they even fought in the civil war.

 

[Aquitaine]

Compare those statics of anything with the West and come to your own conclusion i am pretty sure that the Rape, Injustice and Crime rate in Saudi Arabia are much lower then in France, Spain, Britain or America. I never said that these countries are perfect far from it i don't belief you can have a Secular or Islamic Sharia implemented that can be practiced perfectly because some people are just evil in nature it has nothing to do with the ideology. Now you can keep debating this and call me a troll for believing that Sharia is superior to a Material world view but at the end you will just have to accept my opinion.

Which explains why so many French, Spanish, American and British citizens are flooding the Immigration gates in Saudi Arabia. Hell, the Saudis are just getting fed up with all these Western Immigrants taking over their country.

Secondly, remember the important distinction between Crime and *Reported Crime*. Not many Saudi girls are going to report Rape if they could be jailed and executed for "bringing dishonour" on herself.

 

[F0uad]

Which explains why so many French, Spanish, American and British citizens are flooding the Immigration gates in Saudi Arabia. Hell, the Saudis are just getting fed up with all these Western Immigrants taking over their country.

Secondly, remember the important distinction between Crime and *Reported Crime*. Not many Saudi girls are going to report Rape if they could be jailed and executed for "bringing dishonour" on herself.

I am talking about statics, facts something you can back up not just guess work so try harder next time. What do Immigrants have to do with the value's of the western world? Isn't America flooded by Mexicans and South-Americans, isn't Western Europe flooded by Polish people? You are talking about people are are looking for work, did you know that many Western people go to places like Qatar or that people in countries such as Spain and Italy go to Morocco, Algeria and Tunis because they can't find work at there own country?

 

[Sha'irullah]

No True Scotsman fallacy. I tire of hearing people just gloss over all the corruption, abuse and suffering in the ISLAMIC WORLD by saying: "Oh, they're not *real* Muslims".

Kinda like when some people make the stupid argument of how Homosexuality doesn't exist in Islamic countries, because no *real* Muslim would be Homosexual.

I recall an acquaintance from Saudi Arabia I knew, he was quite young but he told me of older guys trying to "attract him". I found this bizarre because he told me that law enforcement there did nothing about it and were very lazy about these things.
Things such as prostitution are also prevalent and they are called ba'di Isha nasa'a or "after (last)prayer girls". I found this thought very entertaining though considering the "moral" upbringing of these people.

 

[Aquitaine]

I am talking about statics, facts something you can back up not just guess work so try harder next time. What do Immigrants have to do with the value's of the western world? Isn't America flooded by Mexicans and South-Americans, isn't Western Europe flooded by Polish people? You are talking about people are are looking for work, did you know that many Western people go to places like Qatar or that people in countries such as Spain and Italy go to Morocco, Algeria and Tunis because they can't find work at there own country?

Well I dunno about you, but out of all these countries people in the UK say they want to Emigrate to "for a better life", Saudi Arabia (along with it's apparent superiority) isn't on the list.

When I talk about Immigration, I'm talking about people who Emigrate to improve their lives. If Saudia Arabia was this safer and more peacefull alternative, then there would be plenty of Westerners fleeing the West to go live in SA. How many Westerners and Europeans do you think flee to SA because they want freedom, justice and prosperity?

Finally, the Recorded Crimes versus Actual Crime is important. I'm sure North Korean statistics show that North Koreans are the Healthiest, most prosperous happy people on the planet - with no rapes, no murders and no suicides. Doesn't make it true though.

 

[Aquitaine]

I recall an acquaintance from Saudi Arabia I knew, he was quite young but he told me of older guys trying to "attract him". I found this bizarre because he told me that law enforcement there did nothing about it and were very lazy about these things.
Things such as prostitution are also prevalent and they are called ba'di Isha nasa'a or "after (last)prayer girls". I found this thought very entertaining though considering the "moral" upbringing of these people.

I find you claim absurd and unrealistic. There is no rape in the Islamic world, precisely because of their pure, moral upbringing. :sarcastic

 

[Sha'irullah]

Lear the definition of a Salfi please and stop looking everything true Western glasses this is nonsense even among Salafi's woman can go to school. O AND SALAFIS ARE NOT TERRORIST!



As for the Topic, yes there are certain things that do contradict but Muslims have been in the West since the beginning and the other way around. You should off-course integrate in the country learn the language, follow the laws, pay taxes and so forth but i don't see why you cannot be a Muslim and live in the West. Muslims have lived in America from the beginning they even fought in the civil war.

:biglaugh: of course they are not terrorist. But terrorist try idiotically imitating them. Salafiyyah is just a kinder word for Wahhabi i reality. It just comes down to how people are masking it as a different ideology.

Sorry but I just heard you earlier saying how Islam fits with Western culture now I am hearing about how certain "things don't". What made you change your mind?
I have been hearing about how Islam is pro this and pro that along with how it is about love for your fellow neighbor.

An-Najim ayat 29"Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

Al Ma'idah ayat 51 "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

I am sure that is so "Western" because we like rejecting our neighbors as well. So there are without a doubt quite a few contradictions Islam has with other cultures.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I find you claim absurd and unrealistic. There is no rape in the Islamic world, precisely because of their pure, moral upbringing. :sarcastic

I am sorry about my statement.
I forgot that it is a proven fact that religion removes all evil and prevents bad things from happening 100%.

Watashi no shazai