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Featured Musings on Hebrew Views About Yeshua

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wizanda, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I am not the one adding the word "physical", buddy. And I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis 1:4 where G-d "physically" sees that the light was good. "Goodness" is as physical a concept as "salvation" which is to say, not physical at all. There is also Deut. 28:10, "and all the nations of the world will 'physically' see that the name of G-d is called upon you." Again, unless you believe that they physically etch the name of G-d onto their bodies, your interpretation makes no sense.

    And that's because you're not making any sense.

    No, it's not. Salvation means "preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss". The nation/s can see G-d saving Israel from harm as it happens. There is no need to re-interpret this word to mean a human being with the name "salvation". That's just weird and there's nothing supporting this interpretation.

    You have no brought any verses supporting this.

    I don't know what the "it" is, but I'm sure as above, that you've not brought any verses supporting this.

    I feel a bit like a broken record, but again, the text does not support the interpretation you are attempting to derive from it.

    Unfortunately, I suspect that this is caused by your inability to understand Biblical Hebrew. No such references exist.

    This is not supported.

    Malachi only has 3 chapters.
    And this is not supported.

    This is not supported.

    But it also uses the word seeing (H6493) in that verse and 2 Kings 6:17 also uses this word to describe seeing the horses there. Horses (H5483) is also used in 2 Kings 7:10 along with donkeys, thus indicating that there's going to be this guy on RF who doesn't follow the Rabbinic leaders yet thinks his eyes are opened, but he's really just being an ...donkey.

    This is not complex keyword referencing. This is just you making up stories by re-interpreting passages that contain similar words. If you don't think this is eisegesis, I recommend grabbing a dictionary.
     
  2. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    In which sense goes it convey man?
     
  3. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Your frustration comes from trying to talk sense when someone is simply speaking.......get ready, here it comes.........Giborish. (Yes, I know, I'm going to hate myself in the morning for that one.)
     
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  4. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Can I call this thread 'Wizanda Stupidity About Hebrew' or is that against some kind of rule...
     
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  5. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, aside from the fact that Jesus said He was going to send another, this means that for end times, it's the second coming of Jesus.
     
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  6. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Fair enough the word 'physical' isn't essential, so edited it... Thank you.
    Based on just a quantification of the amount of times it says things like 'our God saves', 'our God of salvation, etc', it is reasonable to question that someone could have purposely made up the New Testament to fit prophecy.

    Take into account Moses renamed Hosea, Yehoshua (Number 13:16) for the sake of prophetic fulfillment...Zechariah 3 also continues Yehoshua as a name that could be seen prophetically.

    As for interpreting that it is defining a human name, it isn't... It is portraying a metaphoric concept, where we have to then check all the additional qualifying interlinking prophetic statements.

    We can do word searches using multiple key descriptor words, and see tapestries of interlinking concepts... H430 + H3468 = 2Sa_22:3, 2Sa_22:47, 1Ch_16:35, Psa_18:46, Psa_24:5, Psa_25:5, Psa_27:9, Psa_50:23, Psa_62:7, Psa_65:5, Psa_69:13, Psa_79:9, Psa_85:4 , Isa_17:10*, Isa_61:10, Mic_7:7, Hab_3:18

    My original idea years ago was only to see how Yeshua would have read the Tanakh, and now certain the Tanakh is one of the most complex algorithms interlinking ideas across time.
    Sorry wasn't aware of the variance in spacing between the versions.

    Hebrew is Malachi 3:23-24
    Supporting which bit of the Chief Corner Stone prophecy did you need verses for? Else this will confuse from its complexities across the Tanakh.
    '(2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon)(2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)'
    Maybe expound why you perceive so, as not aware of any issue?
    Supported by whom?

    What does it matter in a world of wicked people blinded to understanding the book (Isaiah 29:9-14, Daniel 12:10)...

    It is like asking many blind people to switch on the light.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    I know I'm stupid about Hebrew, i don't know that much in the slightest; yet if a word search of Hebrew words can provide calculated objective evidence, for me i feel stupid I'd not known this most of my life.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It is more hating your self in infinity I'm worried about; you see addressing someone you hardly know should always be done with courtesy, as you never know what the future holds or why God has brought them into your life, anything less than 100% will come back to us in our life flashback at death.

    Personally understand I'm speaking computer code now a days to explain the Bible to people; yet that is because we have to raise the bar to understand its complexities, not mock them. ;)

    In my opinions. :innocent:
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I understand what you are saying. I don't believe it. As to the point I made, it was in reference to you being the outsider telling an insider what they really believe and what their original text really means. Your credentials are also heavily outweighed.
     
  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    True, so if we look at a list of Judaic beliefs about the Messiah, they're all the reward parts; yet the word Messiah isn't specified in any of those, instead, the word anointed is used in Daniel 9:26, and Isaiah 52:14 Dead Sea Scrolls version (Y+Blemished = anointed)...

    Which means that the only Messiah prophecies with the anointed one in them are about him being put to death... The other prophecies happen after ungodliness is removed from the world.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeah it is really tricky, like an Arch Angel has to get a masters degree to be respected in the field of study; to then be able to say by the way the prophecies are about to happen...

    When even if that angel gets a qualification, speaks fluent ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek; it doesn't mean the people will accept any of it, and even less likely in this age.

    So guess the angel can just post it in the sky, hope someone is wise enough to examine the info, and wait for the age to come.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  12. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You could just ask someone if your interpretation is more correct. Inevitably you're going to be told "no," of course... but, then again, you being allowed to interpret something one way means that someone else is also allowed their interpretation. God does not play mediator in these sorts of issues (from my perspective, this is for incredibly obvious reasons) and so you can't know which interpretation of multiples is correct. You can only pretend.

    And I would be prone to discount your wisdom entirely if you started out making a point with me with an insult. I would likely immediately brick-wall you, with little hope of your own salvation through my eyes. You'd have to do some pretty fancy footwork to get back into even my "neutral" graces. That's just the way it is.

    You don't think that maybe your worldview has something to do with how you feel this way? Maybe it's not the best one for you.

    Minor segments of the population ridiculing something is white-noise. However, I think you'll find (and may have already) that walking around claiming you're the second coming of the messiah gets you ridicule/derision/incredulity from basically EVERYONE. There's a good reason for that. Extremely good reason in my opinion. You can't see it... and I get that... but hell if anyone else will.

    From my perspective there is no such thing as "ungodliness" - mostly because its opposite - "godliness" - also has no base in reality. There are things that are more savory than the consensus "average" moral behavior, and there are those things that are less savory. Call the latter "wicked" if you will - doesn't make any of it more "spiritual."

    Why not try to be the "enlightened world" to the world? Doesn't work? Have to turn to degradation to get anywhere? Sounds like "wisdom" to me!

    Don't know, nor care, what you think any of those mean. I guess that must mean I am among the "wicked."

    Now this is something a little more on the level... finally. I see it as possible that we wipe ourselves out by one (or more) of our forms of perceived need for plundering and wrangling the Earth to our will. The population increase we experience alone will eventually reach a critical point given the levels of consumption of resources that many parts of the world partake in. Without change, things can only get worse from here. However... you seem to imply that there is something out there with a will to "remove" us by this "force" you speak of. To my knowledge, there is nothing at all out there to enact this. The natural order of things (distribution/availability of resources, how heavy the detrimental effects of any aspect of the turmoil affect human populations, etc.) will take care of this very well on its own... and there is no reason to believe that anything else need come into play.

    And... we're back to abstract, "spiritual" strangeness. It is very much more likely that those who survive any coming turmoil due to our over-use of the Earth will be those who are most willing to overcome the practiced dictation of societal normalcy - whoever that ends up being. "Wisdom" likely will not play much of an active part, as unfortunate as that may seem to any of us.
     
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  13. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    This is a very simply idea: Jews are in trouble > Jews hope for G-d to save them > G-d saves them. This pattern is repeated often in the text, so we see the word "salvation" often. Since G-d is the one doing the saving, we expect to find the word "salvation" in proximity to the word "G-d". These are not interlinking concepts. G-d is the one who does the saving, so when ever salvation is relevant, G-d is present.

    Both Hosea and Yehoshuah share the same root meaning of salvation.

    This is not found in the text.

    This is not a continuation, this is simply another person bearing the same name. You may not be aware, but names can't be reserved, so it's not odd to find multiple people bearing the same name. The first one was an Ephraimite, the latter, a Levite.

    I've heard your spiel where you interpret "salvation" as a reference to Jesus because the name Yehoshuah comes from the same root. So don't even.

    Moving on...

    Any of it.

    Complexity is not what is causing the difficulty in understanding you...

    '
    In 2 Sam. 10:11 we have Joab separating his army into two parts to fight against two different people. He tells the half that won't be with him, that if he needs help, they should come save him.
    In 2 Chron. 20:17 Jehoshaphat is telling the Jews that they will not need to fight in the coming war, because G-d is going to save them.

    Can you explain where in either or both of these two verse you see anything about a physical occurrence of...whatever it is that you think happened?

    Isa. 52:10 is about G-d saving the Jews. 52:14 is about the nations looking badly towards the Jewish people. No mention of a son of man in either of these verses either. There's nothing in either or both of those verses about a "Servant...[that] will appear as the son of man". Therefore the verses do not support your claim.

    The Tanach.

    Spoken like a true Christian. It's almost like believing in Jesus requires one to call everyone who doesn't agree with you "blind".
     
  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    So along comes Yeshua, saying here a are series of prophecies we can find in the Tanakh; how is G-d not present in everything that happened?
    So you see no symbolism that Yehoshua will bring us into the promise land?
    A Christian by definition is from Paul and Simon's ministry, established in Antioch (Acts 11:26); because they also quote these prophecies, it sounds similar.
    I don't believe in jesus; i accept the Lord fulfilled what is in the Tanakh, huge differences....

    Plus not even sure the whole thing isn't made up, and we're in an artificial reality to test who isn't worth keeping; because the text is to succinct, like something with a vast understanding of human psychology has purposely orchestrated it to be this way.
    This is a preemptive promise that if Ammon is too strong the Lord will be our Salvation, and then...
    The people bowed before the Lord, in that they actually saw a physical presence, and then nations feared because the Lord fought with them...

    Thus also fulfilling the ideas of the Lord being a man of war (Exodus 15:3).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is what the religious text specify, and then have to take on board what we can see in our world's history.
    Unfortunately within this situation, we're dealing with Rabbinic Judaism, who have been so bashed by Christianity; they're immune to reasoning new data, as it all sounds the same...

    So to make them question to begin, there is a slight knock & pause to allow a progression of ideas...
    Even writing perfect answers, doesn't make sense if the person doesn't want to hear.
    These texts exist for a reason, and who wants to listen to the Bible is a snare to catch out mankind, when they've been sold we get free salvation by believing in someone's death.
    Thank you for the observations, will take on board the analysis of how to come across better. :)

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  16. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    As different as our mid-sets seem to be, I never would have expected you to thank me - and I obviously don't feel the gratitude is deserved by me. But all the same, it is a humbling gesture. So thank you for restoring a bit of my "Faith in Humanity Meter" today. It tends to take a lot more hits than it sees replenishment these days.
     
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  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It isn't the point of convincing them; just relaying the information that is already available to us, as one last chance for some to see it, before this age is ended, and most removed...

    It is just a fulfillment of prophecy to state these things before the end; didn't need anyone to accept it.... Plus along the way, maybe seeing some worth noting, who have faith to listen.
    Even if an Arch Angel were to have a Masters Degree, most people still wouldn't listen, and go the opposite way, as history shows always happens.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  18. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Well plenty of Teachers get by fine without getting haughty or developing a persecution complex.
     
  19. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Sorry if I've come across as haughty, hadn't meant to... :oops:

    Might be the amount of trolling people do, and generally find now a time of ungodly behavior, where most are fake hypocrites in someway.

    As for a persecution complex, haven't really got one; it is instead justified by people's actions, find many people act like they're meant to be in Hell, and not in this realm...

    Which is prophesied to soon occur, that they're to fall lower (Isaiah 24:17-22)... So generally just trying to be nice sharing what is about to happen.

    A teacher couldn't explain what I've just said, and not expect public ridicule.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  20. Kirran

    Kirran
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    I really think you're not using the best medium for communicating your ideas.

    Anyway, what do you think of St Francis' quote 'Preach the gospel always - use words only when necessary'?
     
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