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Featured Musings on Hebrew Views About Yeshua

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wizanda, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    All this argument over who is Yeshua, when the Tanakh told us; yet some people who claim to speak Hebrew, can't read properly in an ancient symbolic language.

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

    So the Children of Israel saw the salvation of our God rescue us from the Egyptians (Exodus 14:13), and that the Lord would become our salvation physically (Exodus 15:2-3).

    We saw the Lord appear in battle, and become our salvation (2 Samuel 10:11 + 2 Chronicles 20:17).

    Then David prophesied that the Lord would become the Chief Corner Stone that the Builders reject (Psalms 118:14-21)...

    With Isaiah continuing this thread in multiple places that the Lord would become our salvation (Isaiah 12:2), and specifically Isaiah 28:16 if understood properly.

    Isaiah 52:10 starts that the Lord will be physically seen as his servant in the form of a son of man (Isaiah 52:14); this is the Lord's Right Arm which the nations will physically see, as related in Psalms 98.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #1 wizanda, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  2. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I fixed your post for you.
    That's right.
    That's right.
    That's right.
    Say what now?

    Huh?

    Also:
    That's right.
    They were physically saved from Egypt. What are you getting at?

    Who's "we" white man?

    That's right.
    Who's "our" white man?

    That's right.
     
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  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Spot on! Spot on, I say! The OP is right...right as...wait...as...right as rain! Yeah, that's it! "Right as rain!" Um...something...I forgot...something was right as rain...what was that?...I had it a minute ago, darn it!...Oh yeah!...The OP is right as rain! Now, I got it! WHOOT! I'm on a roll! The OP is right as rain and Hebrews...nasty, mean Hebrews are right as rain! Oh, D'uh! That wasn't it. It was "stupid" Hebrews! Right. Right. Right! "Stupid Hebrews are right as rain!" Got it! In my opinion.
     
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  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Strongs or a Biblical concordance, gives us quick access to all the same intertexual usages of keywords in the Hebrew.
    When we do specific keyword searches, these are the results; implying Moses, David, Isaiah knew far more than we do, and purposely put certain words in to relay a symbolic meaning.
    Currently according to the Bible, Rabbinic Judaism isn't even our people; so quit acting clever, when you don't even get the basics.

    You already knew my Jewish family line came from Lviv, next to the Pale Settlement.
    We escaped the Egyptians by the red sea, this in Exodus 14:3 is quoted as us seeing (H7200) the salvation (H3444) from our God.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    The thing is - and bear with me here, because this is important - Hebrew isn't made up of keywords, but actual ... words. And grammar too.

    When we do specific keyword searches, these are the results; implying Moses, David, Isaiah knew far more than we do, and purposely put certain words in to relay a symbolic meaning.[/quote]
    No, this doesn't imply anything of the sort. It's not called implication where you're using eisegesis. You can tell when it's eisegesis if you need to first accept certain givens not found anywhere in the text as being true before you begin your interpretation.

    Currently according to everybody, you don't have the authority to determine what the Bible does and does not say. Also. Rabbinic Judaism isn't a people, it's a religion. Jewish people are people.

    I did not. And you give yourself way too much importance if you happened to have told me once and expected me to remember. You also haven't disclosed where that's your mother's or father's line.

    Do you think that we did that with our eyes closed?
     
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  6. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is only one simple aspect of this massive tapestry; people who assume too much, before actually studying all the intertexuality, is part of the reason many are confused, as people don't study properly.

    I'd never have accepted any of these things, and it is based purely on exegesis, as this is what the text stated.
    Which is why we have to understand each in ancient Hebraic grammatical contexts, and not in English or using a Latin grammatical system.
    The Bible speaks for its self; making this about me isn't the topic.
    People who are worthy to be deemed Judah, are those who've accepted the Bible's prophetic statements, those who deny this, are no longer our people...

    To explain it simply, we can't claim to be a group of people who praise the Lord (Judah), and then deny the Lord in the same breath.
    It is from my grandfathers side, and i don't agree with Rabbinic thinking, that genealogy only comes through the mother.... Yet this is about a Biblical topic; not me.
    No of course not, our eyes haven't been closed until the last two thousand years; which is where this is seeing, can we open them before we all accidentally fall in a pit.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #6 wizanda, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  7. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Shall we talk about your translation of "physically seeing"?
    Shall we talk about your re-interpretation of "salvation" into a physical entity?

    A page from a Jewish study Bible:
    [​IMG]

    No English or Latin included.

    You are making this about you, but publishing your ...interesting... interpretations.

    Such as this.

    Of course you don't.

    Ah, the old topic switcheroo. Nice one!
     
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  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Why what would you like to add to the dictionaries, and 1308 concordance references?
    It isn't my reinterpretation, as not changing the word salvation into something else; when we take all of the text into account this is what is suggested...

    The chief corner stone is literally the Lord coming, as stated in Isaiah 28:21.

    It was a physical occurrence in the battles against Ammon, and the red sea.

    Then the texts suggests in Isaiah 52:10 (salvation of our God)...Isaiah 52:14 that the Servant will appear as the son of man.

    This is only a start to it, there are so many references where derivatives of the word yasha are used to suggest our Lord is our Salvation.
    If you understood all the contextual applications of what was just said in context of the topic, you'd know that was integrating much of the Tanakh prophecies to come, cross referenced by what Yeshua stated.

    To explain that context for you: Our people were cut off by Yeshua (Malachi 4:5-6), where the Curse that Moses stated in Deuteronomy 28, Leviticus 26, was put on us from that point...

    Yeshua warns not to follow the blind Pharisees (Matthew 15:14), else we will fall into the pit; which is prophetically about judgement on the whole world to come in Isaiah 24:17-18, where those who do not accept this Snare (Isaiah 8 + Isaiah 28) of recognizing the prophetic fulfillment of the Lord becoming Yeshua will be removed.

    The word blindness (H5788) is specifically used by Moses in Deuteronomy 28:28-29, and about Judah in Zechariah 12:4; thus indicating that after Zechariah 11 the 3 foolish shepherds (Pharisees, Sadducees, Levites), then create a worthless shepherd (Rabbinic Leaders), who won't understand this topic we're now discussing...

    So no it wasn't a switcheroo; just complex keyword referencing. :)

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    In Isaiah the name El Gibor which conveys in a sense God and in a sense man
     
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  10. Kirran

    Kirran
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    @wizanda, I feel you haven't quite understood that @Tumah actually fluently understands Biblical Hebrew and does some ridiculously huge amount of Torah study.
     
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  11. Kirran

    Kirran
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    @wizanda, do you speak, read and understand Hebrew? How about Aramaic?
     
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  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Thank you for the advice, well aware Tumah has an amazing brain, and recall, as often shows every reference of posters on the forum spanning years...

    Yet with the Biblical text, as just explaining the Lord has blinded our people to understanding it (Zechariah 12:4); until the Messiah comes and shows them a path they did not know (Isaiah 42:16, Ezekiel 34, Jeremiah 23)...

    Since we'd rather mankind not be destroyed, and educate them instead; this forum gives us an opportunity to see if that is possible. :)
    I'm not a linguist, terrible at grammar, and have the basics...

    Yet I'm adept at computer technology, and so shortcut everything I can't do, by using the technological resources available to all of us... This is to basically show anyone can see this.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Dude, I reckon you'd have more foundation trying to convince people of your views from first principles than based on scriptural argument, unless you're prepared to put in enough study to hold your own against scholars of the Torah, and of the New Testament, and the Qur'an, and the Vedas, and a bunch of texts of the Buddhist canon while you're at it.
     
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  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    I see the problem. Some of the words near the spine aren't very clear so it's possible all you Hebrews made a mistake. Was probably some pretty important stuff there, maybe about Jesus and Muhammed or the other stuff that tells you you are wrong.

    Non-Jews got a better copy and so can read all of the words without guessing. That's probably why the Jewish scribes got a bad reputation due to their low quality facsimiles.

    Bonus factoid: the reason the ancients used scrolls instead of books was because they were easier to photocopy/scan.
     
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  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe it is stupidity to plead for demanding a literal non-Hebrew interpretation of high anecdotal interpretation of the symbolic language from a perspective of an agenda that does not reflect the Hebrew.
     
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  16. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Aren't you all about having been "sent" (the implication being that you were sent by God) to educate people before the supposed coming "tribulation?" Do you really gain any listeners by throwing the word "stupidity" around like that? Just curious... 'cause from the looks of the kinds of responses you get, it's about what I'd expect.

    I mean seriously... if God's "on your side" and couldn't help you see this through a little better... whoopsie! If you catch my drift...
     
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It isn't 'demanding', it is in a debate forum for discussion...

    Plus it isn't a non-Hebrew interpretation, this is what the words actually say, and can post the dictionary references, was giving Strongs numbers for people to look them up.
    Unfortunately yes, generally some people only want to interact, when they can show others wrong...

    So putting something that causes them to try and overturn it, actually produces better results...

    Agree tho, in an enlightened world that makes very little sense, and would be better appealing less directly.
    Would get the same results anyways, here is down near Hell with the mockers and scoffers before the cleansing by fire.
    By all means, if you can figure a better way to word it, with similar contexts to put the point across, always willing to listen to any constructive criticism.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  18. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Showing others wrong isn't definitively a bad thing. When that's more my goal, I usually just try to use at least a smidge more tact than calling them "stupid" right out of the gate.

    In my estimation, I do not believe that "more attention" necessarily equates to "better results."

    An "enlightened world?" What's that? Is that something like the answer to "Can't we all just get along?"
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Gotta love the arrogance of "I, the outsider, understand this better than you who aren't the outsider and known way more about it than the average person.":rolleyes:
     
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  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Tried to ponder other words, like 'unwise', as it takes wisdom to recall that you've read something multiple times in Hebrew, and they all interconnect...

    Pondered 'blinkered', and 'blinded' in someway, as maybe through bad teachers they just ignore the obvious, that exists within the basic language...

    Yet inevitably if i missed something so blatant, when i could read the language, I'd call my self stupid...

    What other words can you think of?
    I've lost hope in people's wisdom, find it like being in Hell down here currently, where even basic things are turned into ridicule; it is like being in the film Idiocracy, and then saying be nice to people through wisdom, and watch the results...

    If we look at the media, more attention is only given to the negatives, as we're in an age of ungodliness, where the wicked don't even notice.

    Yet i get what you're saying in an enlightened world.
    That is Satya Yuga, Messianic Age, the time after Frashokereti...

    This current age is about to be removed by force, due to us destroying the planet, and it needing resetting...

    Then we keep only the enlightened and wise, who are worthy of being in an age of Godliness.
    Do you get I'm not the outsider, I was the one sent from Heaven with some of the knowledge since birth, and am here to try to bring people into our Age of Godliness...

    Fair enough agree my language skills are lacking; yet that doesn't determine the wisdom or knowledge someone has.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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