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Musical instruments...

Discussion in 'Churches of Christ DIR' started by Linus, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. kmorvant

    kmorvant New Member

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    Mainly from the scriptures that say to sing or speak to each other. If they weren't there, then I would say that we have the liberty to do as we see fit. Also, from early church writings they did not use instruments which would indicate that they saw it the same way. The Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches split over that issue as well. If the scripture had said to sing and play or strum or pluck then the instrument would be included. It is interesting to note that there is no musical scale for the Jewish Culture, so I don't know how sophisticated their playing was at that time. Also, even in the Jewish Culture they did not play instruments in the temple, which is what we are under Christ. Because of this I am not willing to risk my salvation on a maybe that instruments are OK.

    Kenneth
     
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  2. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    That's just it. We are told how. We are told to sing. Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16.

    I realize that. And thank you for saying it. :) And likewise please do not feel like I am attacking you or your church. I am merely trying to emphasize something that I think is important.

    It's not that silence is viewed as a command not to do something. It's that silence is simply the lack of authority to do something. Biblical silence does not constitute a command, it constitutes the lack of a command, and therefore prohibition. Like I said before, we cannot know the will of our God unless He reveals it to us. So how can we authorize the use of instruments with our singing unless God says it's acceptable in worship?

    Instruments are not an expediency because 1) It does not necessarily aid in singing (as is evidenced by the CoC) and 2. it is a separate act of worship. The use of musical instruments while singing can be done without, so why use them?

    Did you read the articles I posted? They might help you understanding my viewpoint a little more.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your thoughts (and your singing!!!)
     
  4. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    I believe I have found an answer to the above question:


    http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2004/htm/20040314PM.htm
    It's the very last question on the page.

     
  5. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I've missed something, but I believe Faithopelove was referring to "Christian music." For example Christian rock with srpiritual lyrics that praise God. I don't think there is any question that instrumental music is perfectly permissible, but rather that the issue is whether or not we have the authority to listen to "spiritual music that includes instruments" outside of the congregation. That is something I have yet to determine for myself.
     
  6. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Yeah...that's what I was reffering to in the answer I provided, Christian rock bands and stuff.
     
  7. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    The NT also doesn't say we can have electrical lighting in churches or air conditioning or microphones or that churches should even own buildings. Should all of that be done away with too?
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The Churches of Christ formulated their doctrine long before the advent of electric lighting, airco, or sound reinforcement.

    I disagree that the NT doesn't say we should own buildings. It's evident in Acts (and corroborated in the archaeological record) that Christian communities owned buildings.
     
  9. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    Musical instruments are a form of technology. If you can't have musical instruments in worship doesn't that also mean, to be consistent, you would also need to get rid of microphones, electrical lighting, airconditioning?
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Strictly speaking, what isn't a form of technology? Flint points are a form of technology.
    Technology isn't the issue. What's at issue is what is specifically mentioned in the Bible. They don't see it, they don't use it.

    What I don't understand (and would like to have explained to me) is that the Psalms specifically state to use instruments -- trumpets, lyres, harps, cymbals -- when praising God. Unless the C of C doesn't participate in the praise of God within worship.

    What is y"all's stance on that?
     
  11. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    The NT does not specifically forbid the use of musical instruments in worship and the Psalms DO specifically call for musical instruments.
     
  12. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Lighting, air conditioning, and microphones don't affect our worship. The point is not to precisely copy the early Christians. If we did that, we would have to wear the clothes they wore and have buildings exactly the same and stuff. The point is to mimic the way they worshipped, which was through teaching, prayer, and the singing of praises. They didn't use instruments to worship, so neither do we. Air conditioning, etc., are not tools of worship.

    To answer the other question concerning the Psalms, the Psalms are describing Old Testament forms of worship, which is not Christian worship at all. If we worshipped the same way they did, we would have to worship in tabernacles/temples, sacrifice animals, and kill a lot of people for witchcraft, adultery, etc. Furthermore, we see from Hebrews 8 that the OT is now obsolete. We don't follow anything from it unless it is repeated in the New Testament. That's partly how Christianity differs from Judaism.
     
  13. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    Thanks, Lindsey Loo, for clearing that up. Since I don't consider the Bible to be the word of any god the arguments you are using are not convincing to me. I was wondering, do they sing the Psalms in Church of Christ services?
     
  14. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    If you don't consider the Bible the word of God, then why does this matter to you either way?

    Anywho, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just explaining where the general Church of Christ stance comes from and why, which is what I thought you were asking. If that's not what you are asking and you are looking for someone to "convince" you one way or another, then you're wasting your time because I am not that person.

    As for your question, I would guess it depends on the church. They sang psalms in the NT during their worship, so I think most churches would probably follow suit.
     
  15. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    What do they do when they come to a verse in a Psalm that says "praise Him with the harp, or (musical instrument of your choice)"?
     
  16. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Firstly I'm pretty sure Psalms says nothing about the musical instrument of your choice. ;)

    But they would go to Hebrews 8 where it talks about the old laws passing away so that they can be replaced with new ones. That also goes back to what I was saying about how if we followed the Old Testament, we would have to kill gays and adulterers and those who practice witchcraft and stuff. Why do you think some Christians follow some things out of the Old Testament, but not everything?

    And you didn't answer my question about why this topic matters to you. I'm genuinely curious.
     
  17. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    I don't believe the bible is the word of any god or goddess but that doesn't mean I don't think it matters at all. The bible matters to me because it is foundational to our culture and western civilization. We should listen to it and ask ourselves, "Those people believed such and such, does that belief make sense to me? how does it fit with other human knowledge?" I asked the question about musical instruments because for years I wondered how did the church of christ denomination justify having microphones and air conditioning if they are against musical instruments and because I recently became acquainted with the adult bible curriculum from an independent church of christ in tallahassee florida, which rekindled my curiousity about churches of christ.
     
  18. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Cool. Then did I answer your question ok? Since most churches of Christ are independent, like the one you're talking about (mine is), I can't speak for every church of Christ. But those are some of the reasons behind non instrumental worship in my congregation. You should probably ask the church in Tallahassee what their reasons are, too. I would be interested to see how they compare.
     
  19. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    Yes, you answered it fine. I am sure the Tallahasse church will say the same thing so I will look at their web site to see if they address the issue.
    www.centervilleroad.com
     
  20. Green Kepi

    Green Kepi Active Member

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    keithnurse...since you place no stock in the Bible...have you every considered this (?)...when the early Christians were 'asked to leave the worship services' of the Jews (where instruments were used) and they started on the first day of the week...no musical instrument was used until introduced approximately some 600 years later. Now this seems odd, if it makes no difference. Being Jews and knowing how they were, I believe if it made no difference whether used or not, they'd have continued with those horns, drums, trumpets, cymbals, etc. Since they did not...someone must have taught them...things were to be done differently to please God. What do you think?
     
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