Multi-Beings

[Master Vigil]

This is an extension of the familars thread. Kreeden and I were discussing the use of creating or using other spirits, and the concept of us being "multi-beings." So Kreeden, would you please expand on your "multi-being" theory, and perhaps we are just using different terms.

 

[kreeden]

Well , I can only try . Not sure where to start ?

The easiest way would likely be Jung's Archetypes , but I really don't know enough about them , and what I do know about them really doesn't explain it . But do keep them in mind as I rant on here .

So lets start with Reality and how we preceive it . I tend to view Reality as Subjective . Others say it is Objective . Which is it ? Actually it is both , and more . Personally I break it down into three parts , the Physical , Mental and Spiritual . One can break it into smaller part , but this will be good enough to explain what I am talking about , I think .

There is a Physical world . One that is very Objective . One ruled by laws , very linear laws . A world in which everything is linear and govern by Time . This is a world where we live , where we are alone , and where the Self , or Ego rules us . It is a world of cause and effect . Everything is born and everything dies ... as I said , it is linear . We get up in the morning , we go to work or school , and we go home . It is a world of base survivial , and we react to it as such . Here we reproduce , but Love has yet to come into the picture . It is a world of lust and appetite .

And then there is the World of our Mind . The Mind sees Reality as being very Subjective . Time starts to loss it's meaning . Unless we connect a time top something , the mind really doesn't bother with the concept . Something that happened years ago can have as much effect on you as something that is happening right now , if it was powerful enough . Of course these Realities overlap . The Ego comes from the Mind , but interacts with the Physical . And things that happen in the Physical , effects how we view things in our Minds . But things are different . Like I said , time begins to loss it's meaning . We could dream , or go into a coma for days and not know it . Things also become connected to one another in our minds . Love and emotions are created . Events that happen in our younth are connected to events that are happening now . Ideas are connected to other ideas .

Of course all ideas come from our mind , and the mind deals with all Realities . What I refer to above is the Mental Reality , not the mind as a whole . But you see how the mind overlaps from the Mental into the Physical , from the Subjective into the Objective ? We are dealing with two levels of Reality every second of our Lifes . And then there is the third ..

The Spiritual . The Mind is so Subjective , and it is the mind that connects us to the Spiritual , as well as the Physical , that I'm not going to try to explain it . All that I'm going to say here is that it IS NOT a different place . It is a Reality that we live in everyday , along with the Realities of the Physical and the Mental beings that we are . Oh yes , we belong to all three Realities . Exist in them simultanceously . But I'm not telling you anything new here , am I ?

Now , since we exist in these three realities , would it not make sense that we develope different personalities to deal with each ? Different personas ? Hell , most of us develope different personas to deal with the Physical Reality . The Mental Reality has even more , as it connects with more and things are more abstract . Jung's Archetypes just start to slim the surface , I think . And in the Spiritual , well the only limitations we have are those we bring with us from the Mental or Physical .

How many different entities are we ? How many do you want to be ?

 

[michel]

After I had read that three times, it began to make sense (That means I was begining to understand it ) - but I was so busy trying to work out which of my beings should reply to this that I nearly came onstuck!

I think that makes sense; I am not quite sure that it is that complex though. I have always worked on the assumption of the conscious, enveloping the sub-conscious, with a 'higher brain' function from the medula.

Come to think of it, that is a 'parallel' to what you guys are trying to say - isn't it?
(Don't say 'no' because I'll have to make my brain hurt again! )

 

[kreeden]

Could be Michel . Jung used the terms " Universal Conscious " and Universal Subconscious " when he spoke of the " higher brain functions ", which is pretty much the Spiritual as far as I can tell ??? But I am having a hard time finding the words to explain what I'm trying to say here .

The Mind , being so Subjective , perhaps there is no one way to say it , to explain it ?

Think of two spheres overlapping . What do you get ? A shape , often called a Vesica Pisces . It is a symbol that goes back long before the Christians used it , but here , just think of the two spheres overlapping . That is the beginning of the make-up of a being . How , overlap three Vesica Pisces , and you have a Triquetra . The union of Body , Mind , and Soul { or Spirit } . The Trinity , or a Trinity , if you will .

Such is each of our Realities . Spheres , overlappong to make us who and what we are . Of course where are other ways to explain it . The Chakras break us down into seven asspects of being . But I tend to keep it down to the three .

 

[Prima]

No, Jung's archetypes are entirely different. They take place within the mind, I believe.

But I understand what you're saying, and well said. A book I have and loosely follow uses interesting terms for them, I'll find it later...

 

[kreeden]

Jung's Archetypes are parts of our mind yes . They are personas that deal with different asspects of ... well , everything that we deal with , mentally , physically and spiritually . For excample , the Shadow is the Archetype that deals with our most primeval instincts and desires . They are of the mind , but have very real personas , just as real as the mask that we normally wear .

The Universal Conscious however is not of our mind . It is beyond our personal mind , although our mind is a part of it . It is what some call " the Source " , the begining and the end where we all are One with eachother . Now , I'm not saying that I believe all of that . I'm not sure . Just trying to explain the difference . Jung's ideas are just one of many ways to view it . A way that some can look up if they so desire , and would likely explain it better then I .

 

[Prima]

Hmm. I never said that Jung's archetypes didn't have 'very real personas' I was just commenting on the fact that Jung's archetypes aren't that related to what you were saying in your post. To me, the three are Kingdom and the archetypes are Phylum. Heh.

 

[kreeden]

Had to think on that one Prima . And this old mind tends to hurt if it thinks too deeply . But yes , I believe that I agree with what you are saying , if I understand it ?

Ok , what I'm trying to same is that we enteract on different levels of Reality , at all times . And that Jung's Archetypes are one explaination of the personas that we tend to use while doing so . Hey , I very well could be mistaken in my understanding of Jung's ideas . Perhaps I am taking too many liberties here ? I'm using them as a reference , and have also used Chakras as such . The two really have nothing in common though . Other then being a way to .... chart our being , in relationship to what we call Reality . So please , if you don't feel that they are good excamples , explain why and I will try to find better .

All that I'm trying to do here is explain that we are multi-leveled entities , existing upon a multi-leveled Reality . It is something that makes sense to me , but I'm not sure if I can explain it .

 

[michel]

Hi kreeden
Well, I am sticking to the point when you said:- "Could be Michel" -after that point, I lost track........

 

[Master Vigil]

I understand!!! And it kind of falls in with my perception of the makeup of our spirits. The 8 spheres discussed on my website. I attribute them as just several aspects that make up one being. But I see we are just using different terms. This gives me an idea for my next class. Thank you Kreeden.

 

[kreeden]

Ok , so I'm just lost in the Chaos of my own mind . But I'm happily lost , with all of my other selves here to keep me company ....

:biglaugh:

 

[kreeden]

You are quite welcome MV . And I thank you . I have never tried to put this to words before . Not really . Only in bits and pieces . And I had wondered what I was getting myself into here .

Hey , these ideas work for me . And that is all that they were ever designed to do . I would like to thank everyone who has asked questions , put forth different opinions and whatever . You have all helped me organize these thoughts into works ... although I'm still not sure how well I managed to do so .

BTW MV , I like how you present the Vigil . The same concept as the Triquetra really . And yes , very much as your overlapping energy spheres .... Hmm , perhaps I should have visited your site first ? If would have made things much easier to explain .

 

[michel]

Had to think on that one Prima . And this old mind tends to hurt if it thinks too deeply . But yes , I believe that I agree with what you are saying , if I understand it ?

Ok , what I'm trying to same is that we enteract on different levels of Reality , at all times . And that Jung's Archetypes are one explaination of the personas that we tend to use while doing so . Hey , I very well could be mistaken in my understanding of Jung's ideas . Perhaps I am taking too many liberties here ? I'm using them as a reference , and have also used Chakras as such . The two really have nothing in common though . Other then being a way to .... chart our being , in relationship to what we call Reality . So please , if you don't feel that they are good excamples , explain why and I will try to find better .

All that I'm trying to do here is explain that we are multi-leveled entities , existing upon a multi-leveled Reality . It is something that makes sense to me , but I'm not sure if I can explain it .

I'm not quite sure why, or how, but it actually makes sense to me too! - Should I be worried?

 

[Master Vigil]

You are quite welcome MV . And I thank you . I have never tried to put this to words before . Not really . Only in bits and pieces . And I had wondered what I was getting myself into here .

You did a wonderful job.

Hey , these ideas work for me . And that is all that they were ever designed to do . I would like to thank everyone who has asked questions , put forth different opinions and whatever . You have all helped me organize these thoughts into works ... although I'm still not sure how well I managed to do so .

And I would like to thank you, you helped me as well when you first came to this place.

BTW MV , I like how you present the Vigil . The same concept as the Triquetra really . And yes , very much as your overlapping energy spheres .... Hmm , perhaps I should have visited your site first ? If would have made things much easier to explain .

Thank you, I am happy you like how it is presented. Any comments, questions, or concerns would be greatly appreciated. I very much trust your opinion.

 

[kreeden]

Thank you Michel and MV , for your kind words . Thinking back , I am sure that I could have explained it better though . I tried to say too much in too few words .

I would also like to share an insight that I had tonight . Awhile back , Toes , one of the Ravens I feed , was singing to me . I asked him what he was trying to tell me . He stopped , looked at me , and I got a very clear image of the Throat Chakra . Now , I had never looked into Chakras very deeply before , so a bough a book , just to find out what the Throat Chakra had to do with anything . Why I would get an image of any Chakra was beyond me . But ok, I'm game . It wasn't untill tonight that I add the connection .

I have a lot of unconnected ideas , but I have never tried to express them in an orderly fashion before . Untill they are , they remain just ideas , not really a belief . And without realizing it , I think that is what I was trying to do here . Without realizing it , I was taking the advice of a Raven . Cool eh ?

 

[michel]

Since we are into exploring ideas, I just had a thought today (That's my week's ration) - What if schizophrenia is a psychotic malfunction of the regulation of the multi-Beings ?

 

[kreeden]

Actually Michel , you are not allow in that thought . Many have made the same connection . I personally have wondered if I am schizophonic . And some had even said that schizophrenia is a goal with Shamanism . Others say that mental wards are full of people who have nothing wrong with them , other then they live in the Spiritual world and not the Physical .

So I can't answer your question . Only thing that I can say is that if it is , then I believe that we all are schizophonic to some degree .

 

[michel]

Actually, I think you are more 'correct' in what you say than you realize.........

Most of us, feel low sometimes, we will always come across events in our lives that do make us feel low. However, that 'low' is not 'depression' - we all have degrees of most aspects of 'conditions' in us - as long as they don't 'impinge' on our daily lives, they are not clinical problems, merely anoying Character traits.

Strangely enough, this thread has been 'gnawing away' at me for the last few days; the more I think about it, the more the idea seems to have validity.

 

[Master Vigil]

There are different levels of Schizophrenics. One may have a mild case, and perceive spirits. But full blown schizophrenics seriously need the help. The paranoid schizophrenics are the worst in my opinion. But the catatonic ones are bad too. They speak in word salads, and have trouble controlling body movement. Eye movement is also degraded. But on a mild level, I suppose a link can be made between Schizoids and Shamans.

 

[kreeden]

First off , after reading my last post I am again reminded why I should reread them before posting . I used " allow " instead of " alone ".

Michel , I have been thinking of the aspect of our mental make-up that many call the " Inner Child ". It has nothing to do with schizophrenia , but can be used to make my point about our different personas . We all have that Inner Child , to some degree . And when it comes out , we often do not act in a rational way .

MV , all that I said is that there are those who have made that connection . Personally , I'm not getting into that because 1) I don't know enough about mental science 2) mental science is ... well , hardly a science . They don't seem to be able to agree on much , and it is always changing , depending upon the favour of the week , or so it appears . And 3) , assuming that we are more or less sane , and who is to say that we are not unless we take anothers opinion for it { and who says that they are sane ? } , then it could also be assumed that we can tell the difference between our imgination and something else . Of course , things do tend to get a little foggy here , as imgination is the first step .... kinda .

So , lets take a step back and look at the first too spheres . The Physical and the Mental . There is a Physical Reality out there that really doesn't much care about us . It goes on with or without us . It doesn't care about feelings or emotions . It is a dog-eat-dog World . We are born , we die . Now , just for fun , lets imagine this world as a red sphere ....

And then we come into play . But by doing so , our Mental Realy in which everything is subjective to the way we view it , also comes into play . As I said before , in this world everyhing is connected . All of our thoughts , experiences , and emotions made us who and what we are . Now lets say that our minds are blue spheres ...

Where and when these two spheres overlap , we usually call reality , as we know it . In the image above , this area is violet , as you likely already noticed . But there are two things about the image that I would like to point out . First is that there are areas that have not overlapped . And second , if you look closely at the violet area , you will see that it is the symbol of the Pisces . { which is why I was talking about the Triquetra earlier , three Piscses overlaping } .

Anyway , on the edges of the area where our minds and the physical overlap we encounter things that we don't deal every well with . Experiences and the like . But we still have to deal with them . And that is where our different personas come into play , I think . For excample , we can be a man { or woman , or both at times } , a husband , businessperson , protector , whatever . Do we cope with which of these things in the same way ? No . We are very different people when we are confronting a person who backed their car into our car , then we are when we are sharing a loving moment with a loved one { at else I hope that we are } . And the more extreme the encounter , the more extreme the persona we use .

Of course , we are only using those personality treats that are best for each situation , but that is my point . We are mutli-leveled beings who enteract on a multi-leveled Reality .