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Muhammad may not have been at fault or culpable for his actions

Spiderman

Veteran Member
"Muhammad was born in the year 570 in the town of Mecca, He was the first and only son of Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib and Amina bint Wahb. Abd Allah died before Muhammad's birth and Muhammad was raised by his mother Amina, who in keeping with Meccan tradition entrusted her son at an early age to a wet nurse named Halima from the nomadic tribe of the Sa'd ibn Bakr.

When Muhammad was five or six his mother took him to Yathrib, an oasis town a few hundred miles north of Mecca, to stay with relatives and visit his father's grave there. On the return journey, Amina (his mother) took ill and died.
She was buried in the village of Abwa on the Mecca-Medina Road. Halima, his nurse, returned to Mecca with the orphaned boy and placed him in the protection of his paternal grandfather, Abdul Al-Muttalib."
Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet . Life of Muhammad: HTML Timeline | PBS

It is amazing that he went from being an orphan to being a military Dictator and a prophet who still has over a billion followers. He changed history. However, I have known many orphans in the environments I've lived in like ghettos, homeless shelters, group homes, jails, department of corrections, foster homes, AA meetings, and wet houses. My point being, that not having a healthy set of biological parents can influence people in a very negative way. They can often be very angry, unhappy, and aggressive people with a criminal record.

Sorry, but I think Muhammad was sick. Not only did he marry a six year old when he was 53, but the Koran contains many narcissistic words like those who oppose the prophet, who oppose "God's messenger" and his agenda should be crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, and boiling water poured on them, and torture in the next life. Those words are also a sign that he had psychopathic fantasies. I think the man was troubled and not entirely responsible for his actions.

I do admire him for having nothing and being an orphan who rose to such power and still influences the world in huge ways. However, I'm guessing that his influence on the world is not a very healthy one considering how much jihad, terrorism, pedophilia, polygamy, and civil wars go on today in his name today and throughout history. Islam is simply not healthy for our world because the atrocities committed in the name of Islam are justified and promoted in the Koran. It is also highly intolerant where people are imprisoned and executed for questioning the "messenger" and his "holy" book. It simply is not a good influence on our planet and policies.

But I do admire and am intrigued by the fact that he had no parents and essentially had nothing yet rose to such power and influence in our world. I also feel kind of sorry for him as well. Happy people don't have such violent cruel fantasies. May he rest in peace. I just don't think he was in control of his anger and emotions, therefore he may not have been culpable. I don't think he was entirely at fault.

What do you think?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
"Muhammad was born in the year 570 in the town of Mecca, He was the first and only son of Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib and Amina bint Wahb. Abd Allah died before Muhammad's birth and Muhammad was raised by his mother Amina, who in keeping with Meccan tradition entrusted her son at an early age to a wet nurse named Halima from the nomadic tribe of the Sa'd ibn Bakr.

When Muhammad was five or six his mother took him to Yathrib, an oasis town a few hundred miles north of Mecca, to stay with relatives and visit his father's grave there. On the return journey, Amina (his mother) took ill and died.
She was buried in the village of Abwa on the Mecca-Medina Road. Halima, his nurse, returned to Mecca with the orphaned boy and placed him in the protection of his paternal grandfather, Abdul Al-Muttalib."
Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet . Life of Muhammad: HTML Timeline | PBS

It is amazing that he went from being an orphan to being a military Dictator and a prophet who still has over a billion followers. He changed history. However, I have known many orphans in the environments I've lived in like ghettos, homeless shelters, group homes, jails, department of corrections, foster homes, AA meetings, and wet houses. My point being, that not having a healthy set of biological parents can influence people in a very negative way. They can often be very angry, unhappy, and aggressive people with a criminal record.

Sorry, but I think Muhammad was sick. Not only did he marry a six year old when he was 53, but the Koran contains many narcissistic words like those who oppose the prophet, who oppose "God's messenger" and his agenda should be crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, and boiling water poured on them, and torture in the next life. Those words are also a sign that he had psychopathic fantasies. I think the man was troubled and not entirely responsible for his actions.

I do admire him for having nothing and being an orphan who rose to such power and still influences the world in huge ways. However, I'm guessing that his influence on the world is not a very healthy one considering how much jihad, terrorism, and civil wars go on today in his name today and throughout history. Islam is simply not healthy for our world because the atrocities committed in the name of Islam are justified and promoted in the Koran.

But I do admire and am intrigued by the fact that he had no parents and essentially had nothing yet rose to such power and influence in our world. I also feel kind of sorry for him as well. Happy people don't have such violent cruel fantasies. May he rest in peace. I just don't think he was in control of his anger and emotions, therefore he may not have been culpable. I don't think he was entirely at fault.

What do you think?
Highly unusual opinion.I'll stick around for the replies and stay out of this but very intriguing.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
At the time, and people disagree if he married such a young, it wouldn't have been like today. Even in Christian Europe marriages were much much earlier than today. It's quite a recent thing to think of what are still children today as something other than small-sized adults. Sexual morality is a fast moving target. No area stays the same during centuries.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Not to mention, I live around lots of Muslims so my opinions could easily get me killed. I had a drunk muslim get in my face with red eyes on a train and yell "God cannot die"! So far, no aggression have I suffered at the hands of a Muslim, even when I showed up at a mosque drunk. Not like I care one way or the other if they do, but most of the Muslims I meet are good people. I just am very angry about the blasphemy laws, the killing of innocent people for apostasy, freaking out and rioting worldwide as a result of a cartoon, the stoning of those accused of adultery, the invasion of Europe illegally, and child brides. Islamic regimes also have repeatedly sanctioned sex slavery (even of children) of Christians and non-muslims, (or Shiites who many Sunnis declare to be unbelievers). That is my main problem with Islam. If they did away with such harsh irrational laws and traditions, Dictatorships, and were more tolerant of "heretics", I'd have no problem with Islam.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
"Muhammad was born in the year 570 in the town of Mecca, He was the first and only son of Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib and Amina bint Wahb. Abd Allah died before Muhammad's birth and Muhammad was raised by his mother Amina, who in keeping with Meccan tradition entrusted her son at an early age to a wet nurse named Halima from the nomadic tribe of the Sa'd ibn Bakr.

When Muhammad was five or six his mother took him to Yathrib, an oasis town a few hundred miles north of Mecca, to stay with relatives and visit his father's grave there. On the return journey, Amina (his mother) took ill and died.
She was buried in the village of Abwa on the Mecca-Medina Road. Halima, his nurse, returned to Mecca with the orphaned boy and placed him in the protection of his paternal grandfather, Abdul Al-Muttalib."
Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet . Life of Muhammad: HTML Timeline | PBS

It is amazing that he went from being an orphan to being a military Dictator and a prophet who still has over a billion followers. He changed history. However, I have known many orphans in the environments I've lived in like ghettos, homeless shelters, group homes, jails, department of corrections, foster homes, AA meetings, and wet houses. My point being, that not having a healthy set of biological parents can influence people in a very negative way. They can often be very angry, unhappy, and aggressive people with a criminal record.

Sorry, but I think Muhammad was sick. Not only did he marry a six year old when he was 53, but the Koran contains many narcissistic words like those who oppose the prophet, who oppose "God's messenger" and his agenda should be crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, and boiling water poured on them, and torture in the next life. Those words are also a sign that he had psychopathic fantasies. I think the man was troubled and not entirely responsible for his actions.

I do admire him for having nothing and being an orphan who rose to such power and still influences the world in huge ways. However, I'm guessing that his influence on the world is not a very healthy one considering how much jihad, terrorism, pedophilia, polygamy, and civil wars go on today in his name today and throughout history. Islam is simply not healthy for our world because the atrocities committed in the name of Islam are justified and promoted in the Koran. It is also highly intolerant where people are imprisoned and executed for questioning the "messenger" and his "holy" book. It simply is not a good influence on our planet and policies.

But I do admire and am intrigued by the fact that he had no parents and essentially had nothing yet rose to such power and influence in our world. I also feel kind of sorry for him as well. Happy people don't have such violent cruel fantasies. May he rest in peace. I just don't think he was in control of his anger and emotions, therefore he may not have been culpable. I don't think he was entirely at fault.

What do you think?
I think you are misusing the word....admire

you admire a figure of person.....that you also strongly criticize?

I am somewhat.....'taken back'......
by the tendency of my fellowman to follow such.......a figure

at the first light of his 'tendencies' .....
I would have put as much distance between us as possible

and then pray to God.....such things fall to dust

and should he be held responsible for his teachings?
YEAH
at great length
by the hand of every angel that seeks peace
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
People insult and criticize me for my religious beliefs. I'm totally cool with that. I just hope that one day Muslims will do the same.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I cannot prove that my religious beliefs are true, so I'm totally cool with people being skeptic of what I believe. Muslims cannot prove that their beliefs are true, so they should be more lenient with non-muslims
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I think you are misusing the word....admire

you admire a figure of person.....that you also strongly criticize?

I am somewhat.....'taken back'......
by the tendency of my fellowman to follow such.......a figure

at the first light of his 'tendencies' .....
I would have put as much distance between us as possible

and then pray to God.....such things fall to dust

and should he be held responsible for his teachings?
YEAH
at great length
by the hand of every angel that seeks peace
I admire him for the same reason I admire a blood thirsty tyrant like Napoleon Bonaparte. They were both brilliant and successful at what they did.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I admire him for the same reason I admire a blood thirsty tyrant like Napoleon Bonaparte. They were both brilliant and successful at what they did.
Then again, I've read the Quran front and back twice, and it is rather incoherent. Perhaps he wasn't as brilliant as I originally thought
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
We don't know anything about him except for what the Koran and the hadith say. There are no court records, no other books. Outside of belief there is very little way of knowing. I saw a video about it on the internet.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
At the time, and people disagree if he married such a young, it wouldn't have been like today. Even in Christian Europe marriages were much much earlier than today. It's quite a recent thing to think of what are still children today as something other than small-sized adults. Sexual morality is a fast moving target. No area stays the same during centuries.
According to Sunni hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad in Mecca.
Aisha - Wikipedia
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Then again, I've read the Quran front and back twice, and it is rather incoherent. Perhaps he wasn't as brilliant as I originally thought
the story I got.....
He taught in speech only
He wrote nothing down

seems he wanted to spread his teachings and let the belief grow as it will grow

but of course....
followers tend to retell a teaching as best they can

word for word?

I doubt it

anyone got names for the people that penned the teachings of Muhammad?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
perhaps I don't admire him per say, but I admire people who come from broken backgrounds and change the world in a tremendously influential way. It is an interesting mystery
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
But I do admire and am intrigued by the fact that he had no parents and essentially had nothing yet rose to such power and influence in our world. I also feel kind of sorry for him as well. Happy people don't have such violent cruel fantasies. May he rest in peace. I just don't think he was in control of his anger and emotions, therefore he may not have been culpable. I don't think he was entirely at fault.

What do you think?

I wonder how much any of us are really in control of our choices. Perhaps to a degree but in the end we have to rely on what we feel to be true. Those feelings are influenced by many things beyond our conscious control.

Say there was a Muhammad and he did have visions. Assuming he was aware of Christians and the story of Jesus, how much of his visions were influenced by his knowledge of Christianity? How much was created by his subconscious mind which he had little reason to not believe they were provided by angels/God?

His feelings/visions drove him to make the choices he made. I don't know how much there is to admire in him in this than there is in any other individual going about their life driven by their feelings as much as any of the rest of us.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I wonder how much any of us are really in control of our choices. Perhaps to a degree but in the end we have to rely on what we feel to be true. Those feelings are influenced by many things beyond our conscious control.

Say there was a Muhammad and he did have visions. Assuming he was aware of Christians and the story of Jesus, how much of his visions were influenced by his knowledge of Christianity? How much was created by his subconscious mind which he had little reason to not believe they were provided by angels/God?

His feelings/visions drove him to make the choices he made. I don't know how much there is to admire in him in this than there is in any other individual going about their life driven by their feelings as much as any of the rest of us.
I think he had knowledge of Christianity and Judaism and took that and started his own religion based on many of the same stories and he added his own calls to violence so that he could get control and be hailed as God's messenger.

I don't think a lot of us can control our actions, because we follow the impulses and desires that we have that are not in our control.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
He may have been schizophrenic

I'd suppose anyone who thought they were in communication with gods or supernatural entities could be labeled schizophrenic. This at least explains the reality of the religious experience. In the sense that it is very real to the experiencer. Since this is driven by the subconscious such an experience is likely to coincide with real world events making it even more difficult for the person to know the difference.

Most would rather belief such events to have been sponsored by supernatural entities than accept their own mental illness. I'd imagine a strong self defense mechanism to be in play if questioned.
 
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