Muhammad in Bible!

[Popeyesays]

Anastasio,

Your analysis is very sound, It is in fact obvious and the only denial of it can only be so convoluted as to be silly.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Anastasios]

Excuse me, Anastasios, but how does "In exactly one year" in Isaiah's time equate over 1300 years in Muhammad's time. I think you need to do some serious calculation if you can mistake 1 year with a thousand year.

First at all, I am not saying that this happened in the time of Isaiah. He talks about a war in Arabia, between children of Tema and Kedar, who were the sons of Ismael (Genesis 25:13-16). And it is not "in exactly one year", but it is only "within a year". Actually, it is not matter how they translate it. The suggestion of Bedr, which took place after one year from migration to Madina (which is also starting point of Islamic calen, in ARABIA, is quite opportune, regarding the description in this prophecy. Other details were in my previous message. But of course these thing are suggested by someone else not me (see in my previous message), and open to discussion. You can share your opinion about which event it maybe implied.
That is what we are doing now.

 

[Anastasios]

You may think so, but I beg to differ; there can be no agreement between Muslims and Christians, on this point.

Dear Michel,

none of us (exept for those who believe that Jesus was taken to heaven before he was arrested, and yes their number are remarkabe), as muslims, has objections or dissaprovals for the sufferings of Jesus and his passion. And I don't accept the substituion theory in Islam. I believe that he was certainly Jesus who was put on the Cross, the different point I have than yours and other muslims is that I am proved about his removal from Cross alive. The information you gave me based on the substitution theory, which I already don't accept. what I adopted relating to Jesus, is different than Christian and majority of other Muslim brothers. I wrote a great deal of evidence for it in the past. You can search for those messages.

Regards.

 

[joeboonda]

Yet, Jesus said the very reason He came to earth was not to condemn us, but to die for our sins. What a wonderful thing to give His life for you and me. Too bad people cannot accept the plain gospel (good news) truth.

 

[thomas89]

oh dear.......

 

[thomas89]

Where are the apologists when you need them?

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, there is no way that anyone can get ahead in a conversation when all are looking at different books. It would be great if we could all wait any see who is who. Soon we shall all see and every knee shall bow and every mouth shall confess! and we will leave it at that and hope we don't kill each other! Oh ya, Israel is a nation again! It won't be long now!

 

[gnostic]

Remember the verse (Deut, 18:18) about Moses speaking of a Prophet of that would arise like himself. If you've read

Sheikh Deedats book, you'll see that this refers to the Prophet of Islam, and not Jesus (Peace be upon them).

Did I mention Jesus?

The lines in Deuteronomy 33, has nothing to do with chapter 18.

And I don't think 18:18 have anything to do with Muhammad or Jesus. The prophet is mostly referred to Joshua, Moses' successor, because the Israelites were still living in the wilderness and outside of Canaan.

But we are getting sidetracked.

Seir has been mentioned several times in the Genesis, in connection to Esau, whom you have conveniently forgotten.


Before Esau and Ishmael were born, Seir was mentioned in Genesis 14:6, which was occupied by the Horites, at the time of Abraham defeated Chedorlaomer. Then Seir is mentioned Genesis then mentioned 32:4; 33:14, 16; and 36:8-9, where Esau have moved to the hill country of Seir, therefore Edom.

It seemed strange to me, that you have ignore those verses, and set Seir in Saudi Arabia. This show that Muslims can convenient ignore passages when it suit them. You are quibbling over the geography, without reading those passages fully.

he made haste from mount Pharan with ten thousands of Kades, angels! (or maybe “messengers”! as its first literal meaning) together with him (were) from his right hand.

Oh, how convenient. Muslims only believed there are less than 30 prophets or messengers, but now there are "ten thousands"? Gives me a break, will-ya. Yes, depending on the translation, it would state 10,000 angels, but don't expect me to believe that there are 10,000 prophets/messengers.

Deut. 33:2, "lord" when capitialised, usually referred to God, doesn't it? Are saying that this "Lord" referred to Muhammad appearing as a light in Moses' presence, in Sinai, Paran and Seir, before Muhammad was even born.


As I said, in my previous reply, Deut 33:2 does not speak of the future, but God's visit in the past. It very clear to me, that Moses was speaking of God, not Muhammad here.

If you are really serious about scholarship, you don't give pathetic interpretations that even I, as an agnostic, can't accept. It doesn't take a genius to see your motives in using these verses, for purely Islamic propaganda, instead of serious scholarship.

I think you have wasted enough of my time, because I got to get back to my assignment, which is due tomorrow.

 

[roli]

This covenant was made by God to Issac alone and the ultimate outcome for Ishmael has been a history book ever since up until today in the middle east and around the Globe.

It has been mentioned several times where God chose an heir from Abraham and Ishmael was just not that one but Ishmael was more like a Cain, or Esau
Gen 4:7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him
Cain had been given a free will and a warning but refused to listen.

Gen 27:41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.
Esau held the same bitterness

Gen 16:9 -11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
God prophecies that Ishmael will be the same barbarian throughout time even though he said he would bless him

Gen 17:19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Either Islam has misinterpreted what God's intentions where in establishing His covenant through Issac or God has made a grave mistake in choosing him.

It's not unusual why Christians have been targetted throughout the world by islamic fundamentalists all through history and why true christians (true because many claim to be but have no characteristics of a christian) have not retaliated but on the contrary have been the soul supporters of aid to the world

 

[Anastasios]

Did I mention Jesus?

The lines in Deuteronomy 33, has nothing to do with chapter 18.

And I don't think 18:18 have anything to do with Muhammad or Jesus. The prophet is mostly referred to Joshua, Moses' successor, because the Israelites were still living in the wilderness and outside of Canaan.

But we are getting sidetracked.

Seir has been mentioned several times in the Genesis, in connection to Esau, whom you have conveniently forgotten.


Before Esau and Ishmael were born, Seir was mentioned in Genesis 14:6, which was occupied by the Horites, at the time of Abraham defeated Chedorlaomer. Then Seir is mentioned Genesis then mentioned 32:4; 33:14, 16; and 36:8-9, where Esau have moved to the hill country of Seir, therefore Edom.

It seemed strange to me, that you have ignore those verses, and set Seir in Saudi Arabia. This show that Muslims can convenient ignore passages when it suit them. You are quibbling over the geography, without reading those passages fully.


Oh, how convenient. Muslims only believed there are less than 30 prophets or messengers, but now there are "ten thousands"? Gives me a break, will-ya. Yes, depending on the translation, it would state 10,000 angels, but don't expect me to believe that there are 10,000 prophets/messengers.

Deut. 33:2, "lord" when capitialised, usually referred to God, doesn't it? Are saying that this "Lord" referred to Muhammad appearing as a light in Moses' presence, in Sinai, Paran and Seir, before Muhammad was even born.


As I said, in my previous reply, Deut 33:2 does not speak of the future, but God's visit in the past. It very clear to me, that Moses was speaking of God, not Muhammad here.

If you are really serious about scholarship, you don't give pathetic interpretations that even I, as an agnostic, can't accept. It doesn't take a genius to see your motives in using these verses, for purely Islamic propaganda, instead of serious scholarship.

I think you have wasted enough of my time, because I got to get back to my assignment, which is due tomorrow.

Ok. As you wish. There is a proverb "he who stands up with anger, sits down with loss". I don't know if there is any equivalent in English.

Regards.

PS: not 10.000 angels, "angles" is the part of next sentence.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry, Anastasios. I don't mean to be rude or give you the brush off, but I seriously do have an assignment that is due today, and now I have to go to my class.

Have a good day.