Muhammad described in Torah and Injil

[InvestigateTruth]

In the Quran Allah says:



"Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful." 7:157

The verse obviously is talking about the Injil and Torah which is with the people of the Book Living At the Time of Muhammad.

Question is, is Muhammad described in those Books using a Figurative Language, or He is described clearly?

Do Muslims imagine Muhammad was clearly described in Torah and Injil but people of the Book somehow changed those verses? Where does Allah say such a thing?
Allah in Quran says some of His verses are Figurative (3:7). Did Allah speak only Figuratively in the Quran, or He also spoke Figuratively in Torah and Injil?

 

[Firemorphic]

Thing to note here is that the "Tawrat" and "Injeel" mentioned in the Qur'an is different from the Jewish and Christian books known as the "Torah" and "Synoptic Gospels", as is the Qur'an itself.

In Islam, we believe that God gave a message to every special prophet, to which they preached. Musa had the Tawrat, which may have included the famous 'ten commandments', Jesus' message may have been in part, the Sermon on the mount and some of the allegories and prophecies - but neither, we believe, are in the state that they where transmitted from God to the prophets, aside from the Qur'an.

 

[Rival]

Thing to note here is that the "Tawrat" and "Injeel" mentioned in the Qur'an is different from the Jewish and Christian books known as the "Torah" and "Synoptic Gospels", as is the Qur'an itself.

In Islam, we believe that God gave a message to every special prophet, to which they preached. Musa had the Tawrat, which may have included the famous 'ten commandments', Jesus' message may have been in part, the Sermon on the mount and some of the allegories and prophecies - but neither, we believe, are in the state that they where transmitted from God to the prophets, aside from the Qur'an.

How can this be, when Allah himself tells his followers and the Jews and Christians this:

But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Taurat (Torah), in which is the (plain) Decision of Allah; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.

Lo! We did reveal the At-Taurah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And barter not My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.

Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein.

It doesn't sounds as though Allah would tell people to read corrupt books.

 

[Firemorphic]

It doesn't sounds as though Allah would tell people to read corrupt books.

No, that isn't what God is saying, nor is the word "corrupt books" an accurate statement towards what I said.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Thing to note here is that the "Tawrat" and "Injeel" mentioned in the Qur'an is different from the Jewish and Christian books known as the "Torah" and "Synoptic Gospels", as is the Qur'an itself.

In Islam, we believe that God gave a message to every special prophet, to which they preached. Musa had the Tawrat, which may have included the famous 'ten commandments', Jesus' message may have been in part, the Sermon on the mount and some of the allegories and prophecies - but neither, we believe, are in the state that they where transmitted from God to the prophets, aside from the Qur'an.

I am aware what Muslims believe. I just do not see that belief is compatible with what Allah says in the Quran. What is your reply to questions in the OP?

 

[Rival]

No, that isn't what God is saying, nor is the word "corrupt books" an accurate statement towards what I said.

What does Allah mean here in that case?

 

[Remté]

There are several instances in the other scriptures where it is said the scripture is referring to Muhammad the Prophet. Here's two:

"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name." Deuteronomy 18:18-19

One may argue who this refers to, but certainly it isn't figurative. ^

"“Hear another parable. There was a man who was a master of a household,(oikodespotes) who planted a vineyard, set a hedge about it, dug a winepress in it, built a tower, leased it out to farmers, and went into another country.

When the season for the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the farmers, to receive his fruit. The farmers took his servants, beat one, killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they treated them the same way. But afterward he sent to them his son, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But the farmers, when they saw the son, said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him, and threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him. When therefore the lord (Greek: kurios—Lord) of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those farmers?” They told him, “He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will lease out the vineyard to other farmers, who will give him the fruit in its season"

Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner. This was from the Lord. It is marvelous in our eyes?’ “Therefore I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and will be given to a nation bringing forth its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it will fall, it will scatter him as dust.” When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spoke about them. When they sought to seize him, they feared the multitudes, because they considered him to be a prophet." Matthew 21:33-46

When you say" where does Allah say such a thing?" do you mean the Quran? Did he speak figuratively in the Quran where?

 

[Remté]

What does Allah mean here in that case?

Like was said Islam views these books differently. So the content of the Enjeel and the Tawrah is different from the view point of the Quran. What Allah means is to tell people to follow the specific content that is, or in some cases was, in those revelations.

 

[Augustus]

"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name." Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Muhammad wasn't an Israelite which is sort of inconvenient for the veracity of this 'prophecy'.

 

[Remté]

Muhammad wasn't an Israelite which is sort of inconvenient for the veracity of this 'prophecy'.

Arabs and the israelites have been considered brethren.

 

[Augustus]

Arabs and the israelites have been considered brethren.

That passage is quite obviously not talking about Arabs though:

What's going to happen to us Israelites after you are gone Moses? How will we know what to do?
- Don't worry, God will raise a new prophet from among your brethren to give you all the guidance you need so don't be concerned.
Yay! Thanks Moses, that prophet will come in really handy for us Israelites as we build our community.
- Well, despite the fact I'm talking to you Israelites about your community, this particular sentence actually applies to people from central Arabia millennia in the future. So by brethren I don't really mean brethren, I obviously mean "Arabs in 2000 years". See, you have nothing to worry about you'll get all the guidance you need.
Awww Moses, Arabs in 2000 years aren't much help now. Why won't we get any more prophets?
- Oh, did you think you weren't getting any more just because I started talking about futuristic foreigners when you'd expect me to have been addressing the people I'm speaking to? You'll get lots more you silly billy, but I wasn't referring to them there. I just fancied putting in a massively out of context reference to future Arabs that have nothing to do with you in my speech.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There are several instances in the other scriptures where it is said the scripture is referring to Muhammad the Prophet. Here's two:

"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name." Deuteronomy 18:18-19

One may argue who this refers to, but certainly it isn't figurative. ^

"“Hear another parable. There was a man who was a master of a household,(oikodespotes) who planted a vineyard, set a hedge about it, dug a winepress in it, built a tower, leased it out to farmers, and went into another country.

When the season for the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the farmers, to receive his fruit. The farmers took his servants, beat one, killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they treated them the same way. But afterward he sent to them his son, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But the farmers, when they saw the son, said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him, and threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him. When therefore the lord (Greek: kurios—Lord) of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those farmers?” They told him, “He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will lease out the vineyard to other farmers, who will give him the fruit in its season"

Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner. This was from the Lord. It is marvelous in our eyes?’ “Therefore I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and will be given to a nation bringing forth its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it will fall, it will scatter him as dust.” When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spoke about them. When they sought to seize him, they feared the multitudes, because they considered him to be a prophet." Matthew 21:33-46

When you say" where does Allah say such a thing?" do you mean the Quran? Did he speak figuratively in the Quran where?

No, show a verse which says 'Muhammad'. It must say, Muhammad, a prophet comes in Arabia, with a Book called Quran, in the exact year, so, there remains to doubt or question. In the same way that you expect a verse in Quran to say 'Qaim'.
Not just some verses that might be allusions to Muhammad. Huh? There is none which clearly says Muhammad? Why not?

I myself believe many verses in Bible are allusions to Muhammad. Much more verses in Quran and Bible are allusions to the Bab and Bahaullah. God has always promised a future Messenger, using allusions and figurative verses. He never specificly, explicitly, and clearly revealed, so, when they come to their people suddenly, the people's belief may be tested. Had He say explicitly to Jews or Christians a Messenger comes whose name is Muhammad, in the year so and so, everybody would believe. Then how can they be tested? God wants only those who sincerely investigate and read His Books carefully and think about its verses, may be guided. For that reason, it has been always difficult to recognize Messengers.