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Mueller Report Released. Thoughts?

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Don't blame you for not wanting to read the full thing! I backed down myself. Here's a summary:

Eight new things in the Mueller report

Probably the most relevant bit is the opening line:

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation paints a decidedly mixed picture of President Donald Trump's conduct, that provides ample fodder for either side of the political divide.

No surprises there then ;)
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The thing that is standing out to me right now is that Bill Barr lied when he gave his summary not-summary summary of the report. Barr said quite clearly that the reason the report did not recommend indictment on obstruction had nothing to do with the policy that you can’t indict a sitting President. The report states very clearly that the reason they did not indict was specifically because of that policy.

And it makes a difference in how you understand Mueller’s conclusions. He was not saying the evidence is indeterminate. He is saying he can’t indict. If he could exonerate based on the evidence he would, but the evidence does not allow that. All he can do is report and record the evidence either for Congress or for a future time when Trump is not a sitting President.

If what Barr said were true this would be over, as far as an obstruction charge against Trump goes. Barr lied. It is not over.


(P.s. I am about 2/3 through reading the report now. Wish me luck)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Many have predicted proof of guilt....or proof of innocence.
What have you seen?

I won't read anything that long, so I depend upon y'all.

I've tried to withhold judgment until someone came up with proof of something, but it still seems to leave us with more questions than answers. Although I haven't read the entire report either.

So, we're left with a maybe he's guilty, maybe not. And even if he is guilty, they're not really sure what he's guilty of.

The result seems to be that a lot of political capital has been wasted, along with distracting the public over an ongoing constant commentary about a criminal investigation, which overshadows any legitimate public discussion over actual political issues and disagreements among the various factions.

It reminds me of the final scene of the movie And Justice For All, where the following observations are made:


What is justice? What is the intention of justice? The intention of justice is to see that the guilty people are punished and the innocent are freed. Simple, isn’t it? Only it’s not that simple. However, it is the defense counsel’s duty to protect the rights of the individual, as it is the prosecution’s duty to uphold and defend the laws of the State. Justice for all. Only we have a problem here. And you know what it is? Both sides want to win. We want to win. We want to win regardless of the truth. And we want to win regardless of justice. Regardless of who’s guilty or innocent. Winning is everything! That man there wants a win so badly today, it means so much to him, he is so carried away with the prospect of winning, the idea, that he forgot something absolutely essential to today’s proceeding. He forgot his case. He forgot to bring it. I don’t know, I don’t see it, do you? The prosecution’s case. He’s got to have one.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Many have predicted proof of guilt....or proof of innocence.
What have you seen?

I won't read anything that long, so I depend upon y'all.

I think that we can be fairly confident that there was no technical collusion although there is clearly collusion "of the heart". Obstruction is left as a real possibility and Congress is suggested as a rightful place to explore that further.

Also being a member of Trump's organization is like Hell for those with integrity and compassion.

That's my summary of the summaries I've read.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
As said in another thread. Does anyone think that the House should address what some see as malfeasance by the President or move on to matters that are more important to the country like immigration, drug prices, infrastructure, and other matters that have a greater impact on the country?
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
As said in another thread. Does anyone think that the House should address what some see as malfeasance by the President or move on to matters that are more important to the country like immigration, drug prices, infrastructure, and other matters that have a greater impact on the country?

I'm thinking that efforts to steer us toward constructive progress and to otherwise ignore the President's tweets will do more to rid us of his unethical and immoral antics than trying to catch him in a specific, uncoordinated illegal act. But we definitely also need to keep an eye on him.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
From livestream Fox News liner notes yesterday around noon.
Mueller Report: Trump engaged in efforts to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation

Mueller Report: Trump directed aides not to disclose emails on June 2016 Trump Tower meeting

Mueller Report: Probe identified numerous links between Russian Govt and People tied to Trump Campaign

Despite these, last night Fox's Laura Ingraham had Rudy Giuliani on. Rudy made the absurd comment that Trump doesn't lie. That's OK. That's what he gets paid to say. However, Laura Ingraham agreed with him. That is why I know one cannot go to Fox for anything honest and truthful.



Now that we have a proper "Mueller Report" thread, I read through the full report as time permits.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
From livestream Fox News liner notes yesterday around noon.


Despite these, last night Fox's Laura Ingraham had Rudy Giuliani on. Rudy made the absurd comment that Trump doesn't lie. That's OK. That's what he gets paid to say. However, Laura Ingraham agreed with him. That is why I know one cannot go to Fox for anything honest and truthful.



Now that we have a proper "Mueller Report" thread, I read through the full report as time permits.

There is nobody on gods green earth who does not lie.

That being the case, so what, and now what?

oh on the pox news bit-
look at Yahoo "news"! Not fair, really, as it is
just internet tabloid. So over the top anti
trump that they succeed in being slightly funny.

For those who may be taxpayers, the cost of
pursuing Clilnton's lies and the Trump whatever
must be at least a hundred million dollars.

How many centuries would you have to work
and pay taxes to pay off what our noble
national fiduciaries wasted on these?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It appears there is evidence of obstruction and lying to the press.

I agree with what @Audie said above; but I think that it would be better for Politicians to either admit that they are liars, or don't do it at all ( If that's possible ).

That's just my amateur optimistic point of view.
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Many have predicted proof of guilt....or proof of innocence.
What have you seen?

I won't read anything that long, so I depend upon y'all.

Sorry, too burnt out on the whole thing to think about it anymore.
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Try what I'm doing....
Don't read the report.
Don't give weight to baseless claims.
See what winds up in court.
Everything else can be dismissed.

It's gotten ridiculous. CNN, and MSNBC = Trump is guilty and evil. FOX news = Trump is innocent and the best President ever. I don't watch any of those anymore. Been watching Chicago PD and Killing Eve instead. At least I know that those are just for entertainment.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I think I can speak for the majority of people in thinking it's too boring to read.

Partisans of the two parties will take their predictable positions and we'll be on to the next subject.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
One of the Interesting Things, in the report? Was that tЯump did-- 5 times-- demand that his minions go commit a crime, by firing Mueller & Co.

The fact that his peons did not commit the crime in question, only excuses *them*-- the Supreme Court ruled long ago that "I was following orders" isn't an excuse. So they were saving their own hides, here.

The fact that tЯump ordered them to do the crime? Should be impeachable. Alas, the GOP lacks the Integrity and the Democrats lack the backbone ... so tЯump continues to tweet his life away...

Notebook: Had this been a Democrat, of whom we have actual evidence, he ordered Crimes to be Committed-- 5 times?

The GOP would even now, be building the scaffolding on which to hang him without the formality of a trial...
 
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