Moving Towards Atheism or Theism? Shifts, New Beliefs, Etc.

[Secret Chief]

The religious apologetic is that suffering is good for you because it helps you grow spiritually and thus prepares your soul fir the afterlife, so we should be thanking God for our suffering.

Is that unique to Baha'i?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that unique to Baha'i?

I am not sure, because I do not know the teachings of all the other religions, but I think it probably is unique to Baha'i since we have a rather unique belief about what the afterlife will be like.

 

[Secret Chief]

I am not sure, because I do not know the teachings of all the other religions, but I think it probably is unique to Baha'i since we have a rather unique belief about what the afterlife will be like.

Reminds me of the famous Nietzsche quote "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
I'm not exactly well up on other religions - what is the Baha'i understanding of the afterlife?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I added verses which cover everything. It is true Quranic Islam which the so-called "Muslims" of today scurry and hide from and make up lies to conceal.

 

[osgart]

Since God has power and authority I don't believe in Gods.

I do believe nature has an intelligent source and that the intelligent source is bound by nature. The intelligent reality is not a particular being either.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I have quite a bit of the sordid story written up in a Word document, and I already posted it on this forum, so it would be easy for me to post it here if you are interested. I left out some of the gory details though, such as how I felt and still feel about God, and that might be best discussed in an e-mail.

Yeah! I also wrote about our Demonic Lord in some quotes I added to one of my posts.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Since God has power and authority I don't believe in Gods.

I do believe nature has an intelligent source and that the intelligent source is bound by nature. The intelligent reality is not a particular being either.

Hi there! I'd love if you can elaborate extensively on this and read my writing here and see how well my concept compares to your concept:
Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/mL92xeJQ

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm not exactly well up on other religions - what is the Baha'i understanding of the afterlife?

Well, that would take a lot of explaining, but for now, you can watch this short video and then let me know if you have any questions. This is not an official Baha'i video published by the Baha'i administration, but is quite accurate and reflects what Baha'u'llah wrote about the afterlife.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Consider investing in an  MacBook



I used to love that show especially Peter Wingfield as Methos (sorry OT)

I've been watching a Highlander Universe offshoot series called Highlander: The Raven or something. Haha, I enjoy it a lot.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

All believers want to believe that God is wholly good, but you won't get an argument from me and that is because there is no evidence that God is good. All we have are scriptures, mainly the Bible, that say God is good, and that is not enough for me.

Now, God can send me to hell if He wants to, because if God is that petty I would rather go to hell than spend an eternity in heaven with Him.

I am as close to atheism as one can get, and the ONLY reason I am not an atheist is because I believe Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, so I know God exists and God is to be feared.

Boy are you going to like the new thread that I plan to post next Saturday.
It will be called Why should we love and trust God?
(I already wrote it and it is short but I do not post new threads except on weekends, which is why I am holding it in abeyance.)

I am going to love it! I plan to be there (Insha'Allah) and know what I'll say! Which is Do Not Love or Trust God, Look At Reality, See What Has To Be Done To Survive, Cast Your Bets As Necessary Based On Your Calculations! Hopefully I won't type it weirdly like that though, with every word's beginning capitalized!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

The religious apologetic is that suffering is good for you because it helps you grow spiritually and thus prepares your soul fir the afterlife, so we should be thanking God for our suffering.

Lol Gross! Thats so annoying that someone would say such a thing, but you're right, I hear that sort of insulting junk often! Usually from people who aren't even writhing in agony!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Well I will try to describe my locus of (non) belief. As a child, around age 11, I discovered that there were so many different religions, and thus became rather suspicious of this. I was raised in a nominally Christian family, it possibly being the default especially since my mother spent a year in a convent after being abused by her father. But religion was just in the background, and it only meant going to church for weddings and such, even though my mother tried to get me to go to a Methodist chapel on a Sunday. I preferred something different (like playing with my mates) and she never insisted. She was a rather lovely person actually.

As a youth, I looked at most of the major faiths and was only taken with Buddhism, which made some sense and a lot more than some of the claims made by most of the others. I was also interested in philosophy and psychology at this time, still am in the latter, and perhaps this eroded any likelihood of my having any religious beliefs or in having any spirituality.

So my current position is that I believe that I am responsible for my own behaviour, whether that is truly of free will or partially deterministic. I don't tend to believe in any gods - any that affect humans that is - but I am open slightly to there being some creative force. My scientific knowledge (lack of) precludes me from being completely atheistic. I don't believe there is much else other than what we see and can measure. I've never had anything that could be described as being a religious experience and anything I could possibly attribute to karma I could equally find a reasonably normal explanation for.

You could probably place me knowing this.

Yes! I'd put you somewhere in the middle zone! That is the zone most appropriate to some varieties of Buddhists which are focused on the self and personal responsibility, as well as some Jain and other Srmana type schools of thought and personal care.

The three general stopping points are Nothing / No God / Random Emergences,
Thoughtless Forces,
You, *
Intelligences / God(s),
Intelligent Encompassing God to The Max

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Thank you also for taking the time to write out the explanation of your journey! I like the things you like as well, but because of my calculating and reasoning a "creative power" requiring some form of what could be considered intelligence through apparent "choice" as well as and much more significantly my perception that I regularly experience the "miraculous", all of which are explained here:

Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/mL92xeJQ

I end up being forced into extreme Theism and love hearing about the very common but for me novel experience of having a different concept of God, even if its a concept which one doesn't believe in but which they think the word refers to and which they "don't know" or whatever.

 

[osgart]

Hi there! I'd love if you can elaborate extensively on this and read my writing here and see how well my concept compares to your concept:
Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/mL92xeJQ

A naturally intelligent reality consists of memory, logic, reasonability, relationship, living entities, non living information, information processing, and knowability among other things I might forget or cannot fathom.

Intelligence naturally occurs from intelligences pre-existing. It should be and to me is inevitable and naturally occuring that intelligences arise. Intelligences can be living or non living. Intelligence is only bound by physical limitations and should have a reality all its own.

For me intelligence can be non living or living.

Since humans think in terms of processes, identities, relationships, knowing, understanding who, what, how, when, where, and sometimes why; I believe intelligence naturally exists and uses memory, and instructions to do the same things we do.

If humans can do it, so can nature is my belief. And it don't have to be alive to be intelligent.

So intelligence is both process, and builds off of memory. It developes systems, and codes, relationships, and patterns. It can organize and plan.

I believe nature does all these things. And I believe intelligence is its own reality in nature.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah! I also wrote about our Demonic Lord in some quotes I added to one of my posts.

Yes, I saw that but did not have time to comment on it, maybe later.

 

[Trailblazer]

Lol Gross! Thats so annoying that someone would say such a thing, but you're right, I hear that sort of insulting junk often!
Usually from people who aren't even writhing in agony!

Well, of course not....

 

[Samael_Khan]

Consider investing in an  MacBook

I prefer desktop myself, but since I am daydreaming about the stuff.... A portable gaming Macbook!

Consider investing in an  MacBook

I used to love that show especially Peter Wingfield as Methos (sorry OT)[/QUOTE] I watched that show about just under 20 years ago I just remember Duncan McCleod, the lightning and Queens song which was epic! I must really watch that show again.

 

[Secret Chief]

Well, that would take a lot of explaining, but for now, you can watch this short video and then let me know if you have any questions. This is not an official Baha'i video published by the Baha'i administration, but is quite accurate and reflects what Baha'u'llah wrote about the afterlife.

Thank you, that was interesting. The concept of how this life's behaviour affects one post mortem is similar to that in Buddhism. Kamma (volitional action) leads to a ripening (phala) of it in some way to be manifested at some point in the future , which may be considered "good" or "bad."

Only one more (possibly off topic ) question occurs to me from the video: In the Baha'i faith, is it only humans that are considered to have souls?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you, that was interesting. The concept of how this life's behaviour affects one post mortem is similar to that in Buddhism. Kamma (volitional action) leads to a ripening (phala) of it in some way to be manifested at some point in the future , which may be considered "good" or "bad."

There are many similarities but also differences between Buddhism and the Baha'i Faith. This excellent article points those out. Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith

Only one more (possibly off topic ) question occurs to me from the video: In the Baha'i faith, is it only humans that are considered to have souls?

Baha'is believe that only humans have souls, but animals have an animal spirit. Whether or not animal spirits have an afterlife is unknown. I believe they do, but others don't believe that. If there are no animals in heaven, I do not want to go there, as I love animals more than anything in the world and my life revolves around them.

 

[Secret Chief]

There are many similarities but also differences between Buddhism and the Baha'i Faith. This excellent article points those out. Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith

Excellent, thank you.

If there are no animals in heaven, I do not want to go there, as I love animals more than anything in the world and my life revolves around them.

Me too. I'm coming back as a red panda.