When would identifying yourself be a bad idea?
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Mother wanted to teach son to trust cops, but they give him a brain injury.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
When would identifying yourself be a bad idea?
1) If one has a warrant.
2) If one wants to preserve anonymity by avoiding a contact record.
3) If one wants to preserve one's right to not ID when not a driver
of a vehicle, or not suspected of an articulable crime.
Honestly my initial thoughts is absolute disgust.
Pigs!!!!
All bad ideas IMO.
The police only need a reasonable suspicion of you being involved in or about to be involved in a crime. A pretty low bar, for the police being suspicious of you.
Refusing to identify yourself may increase their suspicion.
1. If you have a warrant, you should deal with it.
2 and 3, I see no particular benefit in.
I don't think your advise is very sound.
We Never Know
No Slack
How old was the child? I didn't see that in the article
We Never Know
No Slack
"3) If one wants to preserve one's right to not ID when not a driver"
"In the U.S. Court of Appeals case Stufflebeam v. Harris, the court concluded that an officer can request ID from a passenger, but if the officer has no reason to contact the passenger regarding any sort of investigation, the passenger is not required to provide identification"
Read more at: https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/rules-of-the-road/article50480225.html#storylink=cpy
It's OK that you're wrong.
Many people are.
Unless the driver of a vehicle on a road, they
must have reasonable & articulable suspicion
that you have committed, are committing or
are about to commit a crime.
Lawful refusal of identification is not reasonable
articulable suspicion of a crime. This is a matter
of case law. Alas, many cops are unaware or
don't care.
Best to deal with it later...not then & there.
You'd prefer to be immediately arrested?
Different people have different values & concerns.
Others are OK licking cops' boots.
I don't think you understand the law or the risks.
Some basic info that could be useful to you....
Secret Chief
Chief, not Chef
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Irrelevant regardless.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Yes, important information that should be included in ANY official police report... yet for some reason the report she paid for and received didn't include it.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Even if you obey, if you're not a normie then things can still go bad because it's how piggly-wiggly interprets things, and he's trained to assume the worst. Even if you're a normie, they expect total and complete obedience and any deviation or failure to immediately comply is subject to be interpreted as a threat, even if you just walk away because you can't hear them because you have headphones on or are deaf.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
This is a sad incident. And while I feel it's a bit too soon to point fingers until we have more information, I don't blame the kid at all in any case - they look to be the victim.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Speaking of which, why the heck did she have to pay for an oficial police report concerning her own child?
Exactly why I said you shouldn't purposely leave such an individual around cops.
We Never Know
No Slack
Sure it does. According to your link he substained a TBI. Also according to your link he headbutted a cop. Did that headbutt contribute to the TBI? His age and size would give an ideal of how hard of a headbutt he couldnt deliver(if he even did that)
After a little research he is 12 and black. At 12 kids can be pretty defiant. Did his race play part in his treatment? What race were the officers?
Too many unknowns in that story.
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While you are free to have that opinion, it doesn't mean you are right. So a rather pointless statement.
Exactly, why people would be better off not following your advise.
Better they find out from me. You're going to gamble they won't discover you identity through some other means.
If you loose that bet, it'll likely turn out worse.
So cooperation means licking other people's boots to you?
I think you can be smarter than that.
Oh, I understand the law. If it was just the law we were dealing with, then no problem.
Unfortunately we are dealing with individuals.
We have to deal with people and personalities.
You have to be smarter than them. Act when you have the upper hand, not when they do.
But if the only choice you see is between boot licking and keeping you ego intact I can see where one could run into problems.
Agreed.
(But I am.)
(And I know that, even though I don't
remember what we were discussing.)
I've nothing to add.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Leave such an individual around cops?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
They need to just deal with it and accept the fact we don't have. Practicing our Rights and wielding our Constitutional Protections should not be grounds for suspicion.